Birth controll for man??!!!

[Mike]

but Europe has to be blended with the rest of the world?

Blended with rest of the world how? You do realize that most of the people who move to Europe from other continents or societies are refugees who move here because they are escaping their own society and wish better life in western society. Why would they want to "blend" their society here if that's what they are escaping from? And if they do it's pretty much harmless "blending". If some dude believes in god #2 instead god #1, let him believe. If there is a mosque built somewhere where it before wasn't, so fucking what? I doubt that really makes any radical changes in your life unless you yourself make that an issue.

You keep hinting my way of thinking as a "self-hating westener", but I'd say it's quite opposite. I know I'm strong enough to not let other cultures or societies here effect me in a negative way. I'm strong and self-confident enough of the fact that I survive as who I am and stood for, even if on the streets walks few more strange looking guys than I am. In a nutshell, I don't share the same fears as you do and I'm happy for that.

Well if you look at areas where a majority of immigratants settle it's not exactly paradises the refugees have created for themselves. In Sweden they have the same standards as working class people with a few benefits on the side, and yet it simply doesn't work. There are countless arguments against mass immigration and I don't have the time to go into the specifics, but let's just stay that it's pretty bad to import massive amounts of people of another race, with another culture, another religion and so forth. I would rather we offer non-military help to solve the problems in their own counties if they want it.

As for them being refugees, yeah that sucks. Some are refugees, many are related to a refugee and therefore allowed to come because they have family here. If we stop poking our nose where it doesn't belong I think the refugee count will be down. That is where anti-imperialism comes in.

Your whole argument is to ignore the problems and not let them affect me. That's pretty sad. Sure it's gets me down sometimes thinking were we're headed, but once you read up about this stuff you can't just ignore it if you have a sense of solidarity with your people.

[Mike]

Mike Iq is nowdays considered outdated way of testing once smarts. Its been proven to focus mostly on your mathmatical inteligence. People are diversified when it comes to talents and what realy matters is education and focus on your dominant traits. At the end of the day education matters.There are many mathmeticians, scientists,athletes and other kind of thinkers in the world today that is from midle east,asian,indian ethnic groups(skin wise). Most of them live in west due to "better" living standards. I said this once allready, given the conditions an arab might become a "white" person you idolized in your head, and a white person can become a "arab" given conditions.

Sorry, but that's simply not true. IQ is not outdated, it's simply not preferred in a world view where everyone is equal in everything. I'm not talking about superior or inferior races, the value you place on mental versus physical attributes in a population is your own. It's simply unscientific to deny they exist. Education can not make anyone much more intelligent than they would have gotten without it. It's supposed to teach people specific skills, it can't improve their basic design by much. As other environmental or "nurture" factors it does play a role, but it is much less significant than inheritance.

You constantly try to push for opinions that I have not stated, were you harassed by white power groups or something? I am merely stating facts here. In fact assimilation does not work well, an Arabic man does not become a Swede because he moves here. Adoption is the most likely scenario to succeed, but it's still likely to be problematic.

So your wrong on culture being based on racial traits. Its more like racial traits are based on culture. Basic human trait is that we have this amazing ability to adapt to conditions we are exposed to from our childhood.
Ok i am gana humor you for a bit, lets say genes matter when it comes to inteligence. If so then wouldnt it mean that people who had been living in harsher conditions longer then western "whites" developed a better survival traits(gene wise), considering more closer to survival of the fitest in their country. Traits such as cunning,oportusim and being active rather then being layzy :)

Racial traits (genetics) are based on culture? You my friend, must be a scholar. Certainly over thousands of years, certain races of the human species have evolved separately since our migration from Africa. We don't have to guess the results, fortunatly. Studies have been done to show them to us. Asians are generally the smartest, in case you wondered.

(I do not beleive this just humoring mike)
Here is the thing about " it is ok for tibet bla bla keeping their uniqueness". Its not ok, the "civilized" we view are the typical western style nations. Anything that falls out of this steriotype is considered backward. Through television and corpurate advertisement the western culture is being pushed into bunn holes of other nations. It is presented as a superior way of living to us. Its funny becasue allthough greeks are considered whites by the europians soon as they had economic and cultural problems german banks didnt hesitated to say " its greek characteristic that caused this crysis".

I'm a nationalist, not an imperialist, and definitly not an internationalist. I definitely believe that we Europeans should be proud of what we've created over the centuries, but I am against pushing our economic and political systems onto other people. I have an equal amount of respect for their independence. I'm pretty sure we agree that globalism is crap. As for what the bankers say... they're all crooks to me. The EU is the problem, let the Greeks run their country as they wish.

China and Hong kong for example. Hong Kong has been underder british controll untill recently and western cultural elements are very strong there to a degree that person from other parts of china and Hong kong have distaste for eachother. Most of china collective thinking is still dominant along with family ties while honk kong is more focused on materyalism and individualism. Imperyalism pushes westernization to other people.

Yep, I'm against imperialism. Whether it's Brits doing it to Chinese, or Chinese doing it to Tibetans :)

[Monad]

Sure it's gets me down sometimes thinking were we're headed, but once you read up about this stuff you can't just ignore it if you have a sense of solidarity with your people.

I have read about it and seemingly you have too. Difference is how we interperet what we read. You seem to have pretty one-sided picture of what happens when refugees move here which is negative. Let me give you one positive; I'm pretty sure huge number of those who have moved here have already been "converted" into our social ethics or values which cherish more humanity and human rights than their country have. Those who have learned it most likely will tell about it to their family and relatives aswell. It's already a good thing right? You seem to automaticly think that intergration of ideas, cultures and values is that they bring negative effects to us. But I think the opposite, we give positive effects to them. Of course it's not all that black and white, but sorry I can't help the thought that it seems more and more obvious to me that your insecurity of ourselves and prejudice have blinded you a bit to make mountain out of a molehill.

I just think there are much bigger problems and threats to western society which comes from within. One being the more and more expanding corporatism which is basicly killing the democracy from inside out without people even noticing it. Everything is based on making more money by a way or another and basic morality and ethics are being thrown out of the picture. Corruption and greed is growing all the time and the more money you have, the more politicians and power you can buy.

Another being what you also cited and that is to stop putting our nose where it doesn't belong. I think those are the real issues what we should be worried about if we want to preserve our culture and democracy and be proud of it in the future aswell, and stop worrying about few percents of refugees who come here to seek for better life. Sure they bring problems too, lot of issues we have problems with, but far off the scale what some people and groups of people tend to think.

[Tyrion]

I only meant that here in the US black people tend to have many more kids than white people do. I love my black friends tho

Show me statistics that proves that point. It would seem as if you are basing your opinion on biased personal experiences and observations.

Wish I could delete messages when they go far off topic like you can Monad

Well you can't so humor me, hehe. Just asked somebody a similar question IRL and the response was: depends on where you live in the United States but definitely NOT true based on race.

[Tyrion]

Another being what you also cited and that is to stop putting our nose where it doesn't belong. I think those are the real issues what we should be worried about if we want to preserve our culture and democracy and be proud of it in the future aswell, and stop worrying about few percents of refugees who come here to seek for better life. Sure they bring problems too, lot of issues we have problems with, but far off the scale what some people and groups of people tend to think.

Obviously I disagree. There is something to be said about CIVILIZED societies neglecting the woes and suffering of others disparately more unfortunate. It is, philosophically and morally an embedded characteristic of (most) human beings to want to help others. To deny this fact is to be ignorant. We have the same discussions in the United States regarding sending aid to developing countries as well as military units. Josef Kony is a perfect example (for this discussion, there are MANY more) of the UN's lack of power to bring a known human rights criminal to justice for the past (nearing) three decades. I recently read this from a Time Magazine article and I'll pose it to everybody for consideration:

What's more humanitarian than stopping a war? I understand the conviction that violence begets violence. But either you just go on pulling people out of the river or you can go upstream, find out who is pushing them in and stop them.

[Andoriel]

Lol tyrion you just opened the pandoras box. Gloves off, ready set go. İll start, fuck national shovenism! Hands of other nations resources. İll be back with better wall of text when i am done with studying tonight.

[Mike]

Sure it's gets me down sometimes thinking were we're headed, but once you read up about this stuff you can't just ignore it if you have a sense of solidarity with your people.

I have read about it and seemingly you have too. Difference is how we interperet what we read. You seem to have pretty one-sided picture of what happens when refugees move here which is negative. Let me give you one positive; I'm pretty sure huge number of those who have moved here have already been "converted" into our social ethics or values which cherish more humanity and human rights than their country have. Those who have learned it most likely will tell about it to their family and relatives aswell. It's already a good thing right? You seem to automaticly think that intergration of ideas, cultures and values is that they bring negative effects to us. But I think the opposite, we give positive effects to them. Of course it's not all that black and white, but sorry I can't help the thought that it seems more and more obvious to me that your insecurity of ourselves and prejudice have blinded you a bit to make mountain out of a molehill.

I'm not prejudiced. I'm not what you would consider a racist or race hating person. I actually struggled a long time to defend open borders, nearly free immigration and all that stuff despite how illogical it really is... because I thought it was ignorant to look at other cultures as problematic to merge with out own, and I thought it was bad to recognize that race is a real issue. It took science and statistics to convert me away from political correctness. It's not some sense of insecurity that so many others seem to suffer from, but facts. What scares me is that white European people have no problem with their races and cultures being replaced. I think if you ask the question "why is your race worth preserving" to a black guy you would get a pretty convincing answer.

I just think there are much bigger problems and threats to western society which comes from within...

Greed, overstated liberal individualism, globalism, false democracy and military conquest sure are real and present problems. There are two main solutions, either Marxism or Nationalism. If you're a Marxist, you can ignore the race question because nations, families and such things only get in the way of revoltion. They give the worker reasons to not revolt. But if you're not a Marxist, if you believe in free independent nations then those nations need to be culturally and ethnically homogenous to work. That's the only way we can have distinct and diverse people and cultures, too.

[Glarundis]

so, i'm not gonna quote but here it goes.

on one hand, you guys wanna preserve your culture, self-preservation and whatnot, but then, you don't want to have kids?how are you going to preserve your culture?by doing a vasectomy? lulz


and about genetics and education.
genetics play a part, but a tiny one.
do you think ronaldo was as good as we was at playing football when he started?no, he had the POTENTIAL but he had to work. surely, it's easier for him, but still he had to work for it. he runs fast?he jumps high?he still had to develop his muscles.
there are gazillions of black, white, yellow, green, blue and pink people who could be really really intelligent if they had the chance to develop their brain. yes, there may be different potentials, yes, somethings may come more natural to some and not so natural to others. but our brain is not something static. we develop it. we exercize it.


and what's wrong with you all about cultures merging with other cultures?like i said before, what you call your culture is already a mix of different cultures, yet, you don't find it too strange...it comes naturally to you. why can't you accept people that have different cultures?
this nationalist or cultural crap makes no sense. at the end, you can say. ok long live my country and fuck the rest. then, you say long live the people in my city and fuck the rest. and then it goes to your family, your close family, and you alone. and then you die alone.

[Mike]

so, i'm not gonna quote but here it goes.

on one hand, you guys wanna preserve your culture, self-preservation and whatnot, but then, you don't want to have kids?how are you going to preserve your culture?by doing a vasectomy? lulz

I think you got confused somewhere along the way...

and about genetics and education.
genetics play a part, but a tiny one.
do you think ronaldo was as good as we was at playing football when he started?no, he had the POTENTIAL but he had to work. surely, it's easier for him, but still he had to work for it. he runs fast?he jumps high?he still had to develop his muscles.
there are gazillions of black, white, yellow, green, blue and pink people who could be really really intelligent if they had the chance to develop their brain. yes, there may be different potentials, yes, somethings may come more natural to some and not so natural to others. but our brain is not something static. we develop it. we exercize it.

You have it wrong, sorry. When it comes to IQ it's basically Yellow > White > Black. Obviously there are geniuses of every race and really stupid people of every race. These are the general numbers we are talking about. It's kinda funny because black people are obviously better athletes. Seen a white boy run in a 100m sprint Olympic finale recently? But that's acceptable to everyone, me included. I don't believe that if 100 white people and 100 black people trained the same way and ate the same food, they would be equally good athletes. For some reason the area I am discussing is sensitive and off limits. I can understand that, but please take the facts to heart.

and what's wrong with you all about cultures merging with other cultures?like i said before, what you call your culture is already a mix of different cultures, yet, you don't find it too strange...it comes naturally to you. why can't you accept people that have different cultures?

Obviously I do. I have not said a negative word about other nations having their own cultures. It's fine for Iraq to have an Iraqi culture. As it has to be fine for Sweden to have a Swedish culture. Unfortunatly it's a one way street where 3rd world country populations are imported into the West, and they bring their culture with them. I'm not blaming the immigrants personally, but the trend has to be reversed.

this nationalist or cultural crap makes no sense. at the end, you can say. ok long live my country and fuck the rest. then, you say long live the people in my city and fuck the rest. and then it goes to your family, your close family, and you alone. and then you die alone.

Haha. You can either be one with the world or alone? That is not how it has worked for anyone, ever. This is turning into another one of those topic where you either don't understand, or don't read at all, and just go with the first idea that pops into your head :)

[Andoriel]

lol mike you are identifying the problems but you are not connecting the dots.
First of all given you and me will disagree on completely on traits based on race and gene alone.
Basic example is that blacks being more athletic. You identify it as black being genetically better. I identify it as social conditions of blacks dictates them the way that they are forced to focus on athletism because its a way for them to get themself out of slums, aka jump a class(oh the irony). Environment plays bigger role then genes and apperently you wont accept that, so I wont discuss the issue further.
Its intresting that you suggested when capitalism fails its either nationalism or marxism. The thing is nationalism is the product of capitalism, started with the french revolution after failing of feudalism. Back in the days of feudalism race based nationalism did not exist, insted we had religion based nationalism. Christians were divided among them-self such as prodestan catholic and ortodox, muslims divided amoung themself by shia, sunni and alevi ect. Capitalism(the ruling class) transferred this religion based unity idea to race based unity idea, which broth the fall of religions. Religion brouth limitations to advances of capitalism, but the ruling class still needed something to control and unify masses. Marxism notices this and disregards any form of religion as well as racial based identity as product of capitalism, NOT becasue it prevents revolution Allso there are couple of reasons i mentioned such as Eviorment shapes people, not their genes. And my friend this has been proven to be true generally.
Now you say its either nationalism as alternative to marxism. How did that turn out for germany or turning out for usa? Pre ww2 germany the conditons were soo terrible that 2 opposite form of power were on the rise, nationalists and communists. Communists did a big mistake by disarming them-self, and the ruling class of germany saw this as an oportunity and given Nazis major power over the parliament, first thing they did was kill all the communists with in the country way before jews And gypsies.
to be continued later on