Random Thoughts

[Monad]

but you didn't say anything about the rest of my post! :(
bad, bad monad!

Applying math to infinity is something I'm not very interested on because math is quite limited, infinity isn't.

i'm not saying there isn't a way around it and it would be possible, but science doesn't know for sure what they say they know, let alone the things they say it's only an hypothesis.

look at this boson of higgs thing.
they can't see it or prove it (yet) but they have claimed it exists for many years now. the thing is, that particle needs to exist to make sense of all their way of thinking for the past decades. they just say they know it exists but can't prove it lol. and then people accuse religious people :D

I'm not a pro-science, I'm more like open minded to everything possible, not just those what science can proove or cannot proove. But you need to keep in mind that science is not a definition of truth, science is more like a method to organize the knowledge which we have at that point into most reliable source of information. Scientific "truth" can and have many times changed for that reason, because we learn more and more of the universe and world everyday. But at least science relies on knowledge based on testing and prooving, even it can change but it's aimed to get better all the time with more and more gathering of solid proof, whereas religion relies on a story written on paper. ;)

What comes to the Higgs boson, it most certainly is already found about a month ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boso ... _new_boson

to me, no matter what, there can't be time shifting. nothing bends time, time is subject to nothing. in every function, time is what goes on independently of everything else, and everything else develops on time.
time is always on the x axis (abscissa). is there any function at all, anything where time is on the y axis? afaik, there is not.
and the whole "time travel if you can achieve speeds higher than the speed of light" doesn't mean you can time travel. it only means that you see a particle somewhere but when you see it, the particle already passed by that point. in terms of human senses, you'd feel a particle arriving at you before you could see it or hear it. that would be strange, but it's not time travel!

i'm liking this discussion, physics is very interesting, too bad i won't be here for the next 4 days or so.
can you just say something about the rest of my post?i think the 1/infinite thing makes sense on what i said

What is time? I'd say time is highly relative and depending on the observer, time is not absolute.
"Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. THAT'S relativity." - A. Einstein.
Now you could say that "Meh, even if it feels like different time you still age the same depending how it feels like". But that's not true either, which have been proven false by the gravitational time dilation. "A case of time dilation in action is that astronauts actually return from their missions on the international space station (ISS) having aged less than the mission control crew that stayed on earth. Such time dilation has been repeatedly demonstrated, for instance by small disparities in atomic clocks on earth and in space, even though both clocks work perfectly (it is not a mechanical malfunction). The laws of nature are such that time itself (i.e. spacetime) will bend due to differences in either gravity or velocity - each of which affects time in different ways."

So if the gravity which we have on earth can bend time, I'd say it's not just possible but highly likely that the black hole or warm hole, which power is vastly greater than any other power in universe, could bend time aswell in a way we can't even think of.

[Vaux27]

[Andoriel]

yeah i did get it, i was just making a joke.
to me, it seems that that mental adjustment it says in the example can't be that fast. unless you have a very special brain and no standards, or a high will to adapt. but that doesn't sound natural

The book is, to a high degree, based on the old Soviet Union and life in its satellite republics, but taken to the ultimate consequence of thought conditioning and propaganda - we can see almost every aspect of Orwell´s vision in society today, but in 1984 it is taken to the extreme. We see a lot of manipulation and lies these days, but in most cases those who execute this do not believe in their own propaganda. Some do, and those tend to be the most persuasive and consistent.

Soviet history and communism 101:
After Stalin and ww2 soviets had to compete with the USA who is imperialist profit driven country. In order to compete against this they had to turn military into typical western military rather than collective people’s army, turn state into one giant monopoly rather than a tool to build self sufficient sustainable country. Even with these side tracts and USA based counter revolutionary actions they were able to sustain original ideology of party for the proletarians (people who sell their labour for private owners in capitalist society, thus exploited) until late 1960's. After that it become a police state, and was unable to compete with imperialism of western EU and States. Mind you North Korea is not a communist country. Hasn’t been for some time.
Origin of communism is building a self sustainable (thus no exploitation of outside countries) country where you create a classless society. I might have to go into dialectic materialism here. Most philosophers claim that “Human creates the world around them for their own needs". This is not true according to Karl Marx. I am gana try to explain this in plain English as possible. We influence the world around us for sure but the thing is the material world also influences our thoughts and behaviour. Usually the ruling class of that time is the major human influence to the world around us, while rest of us have to adjust their "designs". This is mostly due to the power and wealth the ruling class holds at that moment, thus they have more recourse to create changes in society to their pleasing.
Most basic example of this is the industrial revolution and raise of bourjuva. Back in the pre-bourjuva revolution era, the private corporation owners of todays were considered middle class citizens. They were the merchants of their times and they were not able to compete with the military and religious (hold on people) power of the aristocracy and bloodlines. With the industrial revolution the middle class of this era gained power wealth and means to buy military power, thus waged war against the aristocracy. Since we live in a capitalist world atm, you can guess how did that turned out
So it’s safe to say that bourjuva revolution was a cause of material world, which was the increased output of production.
Now as for communists and Karl Marx/Lenin/Mao, they see the thing we call wage slavery and commodity fetishism (thus leading to alienation of human beings for one another). They were able to identify the contradictions of Capitalism, how fucked up load based financial economy is, and profit driven society will cause even further exploitation of proletarians. They realized that this will not go on forever since the workers/peasants/farmers are the true creator of the commodity they produce. Even the “mind" labour such as engineers are considered proletarian btw, or people in service sector though they are more integrated into labour aristocracy inside capitalism. Since this proletarian class is the true "makers" of these commodities, when the major financial crisis caused by the contradiction of the capitalism comes they will be the first ones to feel it and fight against the capitalist society. THEY are the true makers of the material we have today, and they are the majority, thus a massive proletarian movement will be indeed the end of capitalism if it happens during a "huge" financial crisis. This actually happened in turkey and many other countries but the problem is that we have states and other western EU countries that manufactured coups to keep the capitalism stable. Funny thing is now even those countries are having trouble dealing with their own workers on board almost as off shores Any who before and during these revolutions "communists" will be (and has been) interacting, organizing and participating within the modes of production as a proletarian. This is the common propaganda against communists that they don’t do anything other than organizing the proletarian. The thing is you cannot organize them unless you ARE one of them. Anarchists are good example for this, they are mostly middle class or petty bourjuva people that we identify as "activist". They havnt been able to create any kind of revolution due the their lack of ability to organize shit.
Any who since the human is influenced by the world around it, how can we create a much sustainable world during the collapse of capitalism? That’s where communist philosophy comes in and it is the anti thesis of capitalism. A society that abolishes private ownership of the mode of production then nationalizes them for the benefit to everyone. Party itself who has taken power from the bourjuva has to be made out of workers of the previous capitalist society rather than current property owners. Members too have to participate in the mode of production as they did before the revolution. It will not be a communist society; I can even bluntly say that Soviets were not communist at all. They were socialists and the socialism they created at the beginning was a tool to create communist society.
If most of you start reading writings of Lenin or Marx you might have better idea of what it exactly is But before doing that you have to let go of this national shovenism and insane self worth that comes with it.

Oh btw i allready had these materials writen for my political class, soo stuff like this has been going on in my mind. Still need to finish the part on labor value and it happens to be hardest one

[xHarlequinx]

I'd say it's not just possible but highly likely that the black hole or warm hole, which power is vastly greater than any other power in universe.

[Glarundis]

So would you see the explosion in realtime as you're getting closer, or would it speed up and you'd quickly see the supernova happening in half the time frame it would of happened?

this is what would happen, I think. every second you get closer, not only does the explosion in your eyes advance 1 second (because 1 second has passed) but in one second you would travel the entire distance that light travels in 1 second therefore advancing another second. but that still wouldn't be time travelling.

whereas religion relies on a story written on paper.

not only, but aswell. and i really don't see the problem with it. especially when the "story" might be more than "just a story". even then, religion also changes like science. not only in terms of doctrine, but in terms of practice, as our understanding of what we call God changes.

Such time dilation has been repeatedly demonstrated, for instance by small disparities in atomic clocks on earth and in space, even though both clocks work perfectly (it is not a mechanical malfunction). The laws of nature are such that time itself (i.e. spacetime) will bend due to differences in either gravity or velocity - each of which affects time in different ways."

So if the gravity which we have on earth can bend time, I'd say it's not just possible but highly likely that the black hole or warm hole, which power is vastly greater than any other power in universe, could bend time aswell in a way we can't even think of.

yes, i've read something about this some years ago. this is true, but that still isn't time travelling or whatever.
firstly: let's think that maybe time passes exactly at the same rate, but the effects of time and the physics of atoms work differently. so, what will happen is. people will age differently (the effects of time) and time measurement devices (atomic clocks) will work differently. time didn't advance diferently, but everything that we can use to measure it did. now this is one possibility, one that says that time doesn't even bend. i could say that a tree in different conditions also grows at different rates, but i'm quite sure time passes the same

but for practical purposes let's assume that, we go with what we can measure, and if the the astronauts aged faster and the clocks also advanced faster, we could conclude that time advances differently in those areas.

but still, that doesn't mean there's time traveling. you can't teleport (atleast not yet, and i doubt you'll be able to do it. but it would be so fucking awesome!)
so, let's say a guy up there in the moon (or wherever time works differently) talks over radio to the earth. he speaks at a certain rate, and, time bending or not, we will receive it with exactly the same rate (i think?) the progressive bending of time that occurs through space will ensure that, in the end, there can't be time traveling.

if i'm in a place where time is moving fast and i can't teleport, i'll approach the earth, but progressively, time will go back to what it was, so it's irrelevant.

about black holes. even if you could take time to the extreme, like, 1 second advancing incredibly fast (or incredibly slow), it would still go in the same direction, you wouldn't "reverse" it.


now, in an almost time traveling experience, what could happen would be something like this.
you go to a place where time advances differently, be there for few years, time in earth advanced a lot more, you come back, 100 years have passed, but you're still alive and only like 5 years have passed (on earth). this isn't time traveling, but for your human experience feels like it. this would be playing with time advance rate, but never going to the future or to the past. you could in theory "wait" for time to advance a bit more. or spend shitloads of years in a place while on earth would only pass 0.1 seconds. but you could never ever make it go to 0 (freezing time) or negative (going to the past). unless you can arrive before you have left but how do you do that?

[Monad]

unless you can arrive before you have left :P but how do you do that?

Read the worm hole theory. :)

[xHarlequinx]

tl;dr

[Glarundis]

unless you can arrive before you have left but how do you do that?

Read the worm hole theory.

i am reading it. but the thing is, this is assuming there are places in the universe where you enter and come out on a different time than it was when you entered. it has nothing to do with arriving before you left due to extremely high speeds.

with worm-holes there could be time travelling, but that's the same as someone saying "if there's a time machine in the universe, we can time travel". oh really?

now, how would one create such a thing, or how would it appear in the universe (without human participation)?

[Monad]

unless you can arrive before you have left but how do you do that?

Read the worm hole theory.

i am reading it. but the thing is, this is assuming there are places in the universe where you enter and come out on a different time than it was when you entered. it has nothing to do with arriving before you left due to extremely high speeds.

with worm-holes there could be time travelling, but that's the same as someone saying "if there's a time machine in the universe, we can time travel". oh really?

I said that black holes or worm holes could bend time in a way that we're not even aware of. You're simplifying things too much. Our brains cannot (most likely) even understand or comprehend the way it works. I'm just saying that time is alot more complex thing than constant universal flow of something which cannot be altered in any way.

now, how would one create such a thing, or how would it appear in the universe (without human participation)?

That is irrelevant question because no-one knows. It's like asking "how would one create a time?" or "how would one create an atom?" or "how would one create a law of gravity?". Sure those examples are certified facts which exists for 100% sure, but there are LOT of things which we know that exists but we cannot examine or proove to be there. For example dark matter which is roughly estimated to be 84% of the universe. We know it's there, we can examine its effects to universe but we can't examine the matter itself. But we shouldn't question or deny its existance with question like "how would one create such thing?" because we don't know the answer, we don't know what it is.

Theories are theories but it would be like shooting yourself to leg if you deny its possibility only because you cant comprehend how it's created in the first place. Even if ants don't understand nuclear physics it doesn't mean that it don't exist. Everything is relative, "even" to our brain capability.

[Glarundis]

well, obviously...
i was asking that because, if we wanted to time travel, we had to, on top of knowing that wormholes exist, know how to control/create them (atleast control them)

when you say our brains are not capable of understand, you mean me and you and people that have not studied this or you mean this stuff is just too much for human brains? if it's that, then how come they theorized about something that is far too complex for them to understand?

anyway, let's wait for further development on wormholes/higgs/whatever the fuck there is

you said that the higgs particle is most likely figured out now, but i doubt it, otherwise it would probably come on the news?because atleast in portugal we even had a debate in national tv with some scientists and all because of all the fuss. like, a few weeks ago