What to do re: PvP #3

[Glarundis]

hmmm
this is by far the most tricky of all the suggestions for this pvp fuckfest we're having. it's also the most delicate
i voted yes, but after reading darian (stop changing people's minds!) i kind of want to give no a try.

it's true that we have metagaming going on because of the way things are. but isn't it true that it's like this because we can't play with the "enemy side"? then again, i find it very weird that on one day i could pvp with my imp char and tomorrow i choose to pvp with my law char and loot the guys that were my mates yesterday and take their indies. what would happen the next day in uoam?would i just give back the cloth?would i be frowned upon?would nobody really care because it's all a game?
quite frankly, the major reasons as for why ppl would be pissed off is because they lose things that take hours to achieve.
i don't give a rat's ass if i kill or die in soldat or battlefield or whatever the fuck. i may lose that battle, but i'm not losing anything really. 10 seconds later i'm respawning again. here it's not like that. we have lost months of online time in this game (it's sad, i know) and for that fact every little gain and every little loss is already too important for us


anyway, philosophy aside, i think i'm gonna go with what vaux answered to darian.
it's better if we restrict it all, and when ppl start become more mature we can have a free for all, we can even have chars in all religions eh


a question. i get that from this you can't ally a religion anymore with a guild. but why couldn't a guild decide to war a few other guilds?do they have to war only one guild, and no more than one at any given time?

[Darian Darkmind]

i find it very weird that on one day i could pvp with my imp char and tomorrow i choose to pvp with my law char and loot the guys that were my mates yesterday and take their indies. what would happen the next day in uoam?would i just give back the cloth?would i be frowned upon?would nobody really care because it's all a game?

I have a hard time believing you'd go and gank them inside a dungeon if they are your friends - even if you are currently playing on the other side. That's the whole beauty of it. You don't want to grief when the target is your "friend" and only way to become friends with people is to play with them... and to do that, we can't have restrictions.

when ppl start become more mature we can have a free for all, we can even have chars in all religions eh

Problem with that is people won't mature unless they've given the opportunity and the trust to do so. You will only learn to respect the other side once you learn to "know" them. Best way to do that is to play with them, share a map with them and talk with them.

I'm certain removing the restrictions would cause some metagaming and some problems especially in the very beginning, but as time goes by, it will settle down. Just look at Imperial and Tekstone. One moment we were at each others throat, the next day we were allies and friends. When we were enemies, no one in Imperial trusted me as a player... might be they still don't, but at least it don't appear like that to me anymore. At least I trust them.

The same happened when Tekstone allied Law. Therefore, I'm certain Vaux is wrong in this. Individual cases of meta-gaming will be individual cases and it's easier to handle them than to handle this whole shit-storm.

[Glarundis]

yes it's true, i wouldn't attack them in a dungeon just to get their shit. this would certainly end all the griefing after the beggining, unless some people were real jerks lol

my concern is not that.
it's for normal pvp fights and every day life pvp lol
there's a siege. now which char do you use?your law char?your imp char?why?will the other side be pissed off at you for not helping their side?now that we're at it, your religion gains power if you're there and it has more numbers. so logging one char means you like that side better than the other side. soon enough we would either
1-be allowed to have chars i ndifferent religions but stick to our "true own" and metagaming restarts, now with uoam passes being known to everyone etc
2-the complete opposite. everyone has chars in every religion, every "feels" every religion as his own, every belongs to every faction, thus pvp will start losing point in terms of who is winning and who is losing, and soon enough, the whole game would lose meaning (atleast the pvp part of it, pvm'ers would still be ok, since they can't play as a mob in a dungeon )

it's a question of conflict of interests.

let's imagine that siege now, even if the numbers are evenly split.
you don't want to be a jerk to your friend in law religion, but if you kill him, are you not gonna loot him?are you gonna leave the cloths there?where's the rp in that?might aswell make full looting restriction then.

it can go well, and it can go terrible

make cloths more common/shit easier to craft/etc and ppl won't mind so much that they die in pvp, so dying and getting looted isn't such a big deal

[Haley]

This poll relates to this General post.

Obviously we're still thinking about the details, but introducing account restrictions on guild membership would work something along the lines of:
- Players are only allowed to have characters in a single guild that is at war with another guild. This would mean that all these religion supporting guilds (AG, Justice League, etc. etc.) could no longer exist and PvP would be focused into the religions.

I think this is a great idea. It gives the pvpers religion powers and they can do all the pvp they want with each other. And there are clear cut lines on who is allowed to attack who. It also gives those who want to actually RP the ability to do that as well without the worry of someone ruining their fun by stealing their hard earned lizard bone gear.

I think being in more than one religion is only encouraging metagaming. Imp and Tek are closely related as is Law and Nature (in comparison with each set). I think that if they ally they are just destroying more RP that could happen. Allowing alliances like this will let someone switch to an another character and switch to the "winning" side in a hopes that they don't lose their gear. (Metagaming) And this would be a constant issue across several accounts.

I call BS on someone being willing to attack their "friend" on an opposing faction, steal and keep their gear. If someone that I thought was my friend did that to me I'd end that friendship.

I'd have to agree with a LOT of what Mike had to say about in his post. The pvpers have very strong "ingroups" and most of what they post is in favor of how it will affect their PVP on this shard. If we draw a line in the sand saying that if you want to pvp, you have to be in one of the religions. If none of the religions are your cup of tea, then gather a group of people (like you would with a guild) and propose your thoughts to the GMs/Admins. It's how we created Imperial spawning out of Tek. Also if/when you have all your religions focused on each other, you can focus on what looting rules are for those battles.

There are people who will not get along with certain others simply because of prior relations with them and no amount of "playing with" them will fix that relationship into a "Cool. Let's hang out and beat each other up after a line of RP cause it's required." You will get the same results you claim to be trying to avoid. "Oh people will get bored and just not play cause... blah blah blah"

I also agree with Mike "To be honest the only way I see that changing is if looting is completely disabled and PvP is made "arena style" with no world PvP, no dungeon attacks etc." I think this will give those pvpers a release and if they need more, there are Russian PK shards I've heard about that might fit their needs. But I can understand that they won't want to go do that when there is so much easy pickings here and they'd have to rebuild a character with no alliances/help to get them above the target noobs to be pilfered status they will be at. You know, what they are doing here.

It's funny reading the excuses saying that the restrictions are the reason why people are griefing the other side. Really? Come on. "I can't play with them so I can't trust them but if they would just let me kill them and gank all their stuff, we'd get along great!"

I am under the impression that this is a RP shard with some PVP. I think by putting the pvp into the religions if gives those who want to pvp their outlet and those that want to RP their outlet.