Logics: OoN, daemons, animals and OoL

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Houston
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Re: Logics: OoN, daemons, animals and OoL

Post by Houston »

Rohan Koht wrote:1) Nature values any life, Law values human life. So polymorphing someone by whatever reason, might be understandable to Nature but not to Law.

2) Law can't kill animals? Why? A butcher is a bad citizen in the human society? A fisherman? No. Perhaps Nature will have a problem with that if everything from that animal is not properly taken use of (according to their old standards), but to Law it couldn't matter a single bit. I guess a bit of discussion and deals IG could solve that and create limits of what is acceptable or not by both sides but you just prefer to do everything in the OOC boards.

3) Law is not above the common man, but if you polymorph a Law man, Law will take action. It's still considered a personal attack. If you polymorph someone else, that will be judged by Law's rules only if the victim reports it to Law. Nature might not acknowledge that, but it's the way it is and should be solved IG, as I stated in the previous point.

4) Nature fighting robbers started when Nature was being robbed by Tek alts. It followed to Nature being too close to Law until a point where they were almost one religion alone. That is gone and unless Nature has a personal grudge against robbers, it's not their job.

5) Imperial and Nature can't co-exist. Imperial is against every other God, including Gaea. If you're in Imperial you're supposed to know that, and not create democracy alike hierarchies that has nothing to do with Imperial's fundamentalist way of being, or at least the way it was created and followed in the last 5 years and still whine that Nature doesn't like you.
1) Nature and Law always had reasonable and understanding relations between eachother. Such as killing animals "mercilessly" - i dont hear Law taking this job for themselves. Whenever one side is in need of help of the other side, Nature and Law dont argue between eachother. It is like in real world, like driving with 55 km/h on a 50 km zone, but the cops wont stop it, since its playing an ass. Such relations does have Nature and Law, there is no point for those two to fight.

2) Simply, the lawman isn't an animal butcher, only if necessary (such as a plagued animal sent to a town). Nature can forgive the slaughter of the plagued animal for already two reasons, saving the other animals around and also the humen life where the plague can spread to.

3)Polymorph can be casted on Lawman also, IF the lawman will perform the same slaughter over and over again and even spit at the members of Order of Nature, it will assumeably end up excomming the member out of Law, for being an ass to the most peaceful religion, there is just no reason that Law should war Nature. It's the same as you put Peace and Order into one ring. What will you get out of it?

4) As i mentoined earlier, Nature and Law are friendly, one helps another. Ofcourse Law helps Natures more, since the action made by robbers can't be dealt without the hands of Order. Its like, Nature defends their peace and Law puts down the hammer, so why not taking the teamwork when no side means harm to eachother?

5)Order of Nature, actually never was related with Order of Imperial, if you mean alliance between both sides? No, you have been misled on that one. The one and only thing that Nature ingociates or ever had, is peace between both sides. The other words dont really much make sence.
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Rohan Koht
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Re: Logics: OoN, daemons, animals and OoL

Post by Rohan Koht »

@Houston you have a way of not understanding what someone is saying that astonishes me.

@Mike roman consuls were usually more than 1, assigned by town and magistrates and not for the whole territory. Kind of like ministers in modern republics, but with all having somewhat more military duties.

@Quintoz the last time I was in Imp Temple, Mike's title was senate, not senator.
And if you continue to use such language when I'm actually trying to help you, consider yourself ignored. I don't even mind your 6 year old english spelling since I have no idea where you are from, but "your uptight anus attitude is very annoying"


Edit: And in case you haven't understood: I don't mind you turning Imperial into a republic. You have every right to do so. I would just like to see it in the shard history without a huge story hole.
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Quintoz
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Re: Logics: OoN, daemons, animals and OoL

Post by Quintoz »

Then I guess you messed up when you read his tital, becouse I am positvie I gave him the rank of Senator.
Last edited by Quintoz on Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mike
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Re: Logics: OoN, daemons, animals and OoL

Post by Mike »

@Mike roman consuls were usually more than 1, assigned by town and magistrates and not for the whole territory. Kind of like ministers in modern republics, but with all having somewhat more military duties.

There were two Consuls in the republic who usually took turns in making their decisions so that they wouldn't interfere with each other,. Their power in times of peace were limited by the Senate, but in times of war when they assumed command over the assembled army they had full executive powers and made all the important decisions. Since there can't be two leaders for a religion that part is out, but other than that it's what we're doing. The Consul (HP) is always in command in battle. When we're making decisions out of battle all members who have the rank of Senator has a say in it along with the Consul.

What you're thinking of is a Proconsul, who was more of a provincial governor.
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Alteran

Re: Logics: OoN, daemons, animals and OoL

Post by Alteran »

Quintoz i am tired of hearing, how you are give other players names, this has to stop or jail time wont be far behind.

Alteran
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Quintoz
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Re: Logics: OoN, daemons, animals and OoL

Post by Quintoz »

Sorry, I'll change it to "messed" instead of yeah you know.
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Re: Logics: OoN, daemons, animals and OoL

Post by Geryn Farodae »

Mike, enough with the attitude toward Rohan. No one could have explained the finer details of that scenario better than he did. And it bothers me profoundly to watch someone who has absolutely no experience in the Order of Law make assumptions about how things are ran.

It was my mistake in being so hasty in not elaborating further, so I thank Rohan for picking up my slack, and doing such a fine job in explaining.

And about the Consular Roman etc... Who cares? We aren't in Rome. But rather than consider the ruling aspect of "Rome" as I can't for the life of me understand why you are bringing it up in the first place, you should model the Order of Imperial after the Roman Church.

Remember, as RP goes, Imperial serves under Lord Blackthorn. Imperial is its own religion, so why not model it after such? Order of Law has a Counsel, which, unfortunately, has been disbanded a long time ago due to inactivity.

If you're looking for alternatives for High Priest, why not Pope? Bishop? Arch Bishop, etc?

But returning to the thread that directly draws my attention, Order of Law preserves the peace, not nature. And yes, Houston, if an Officer were killing for no better reason than to kill, and then spit at a Nature member, yes, he would be punished with a high probability of being excomunicated.

Consider real life, if you see a Police Officer taking his service pistol and popping a stray dog, how would you proceed? A) Report the incident to the Police Chief. B) Walk up to the police officer, take his gun, and shoot him with it.

One rule for the Order of Law that is unwritten, but everyone knows because it goes without saying: Respect different religious culture.

If I were to ask Rohan to go out and kill every single animal surrounding Britain, even though there's a host of Nature members around, I can guarantee you he will tell me just where I could go. Why? Because though no one is ordered to, we all respect the fact that Nature is there to protect Gaea. And what I meant before is:

Joe Blow (no religion) is walking around, training, killing animals by the score. Order of Nature member spots him, RP's with him about how wrong it is to take life needlessly. Joe Blow scoffs at the notion, flips off the Order of Nature member, and deliberately kills an animal. OoN member gets mad, Polymorphs the perpetrator, then, using his sceptor, or chosen weapon, kills the polymorphed individual, RP'ing it as Gaea'n Retribution.

For that, I'm not 100% about how that would be escalated, whether staff should get involved, or if we would. And if you don't know WHY that would be wrong... Ugh, I won't explain it any clearer.

As Rohan said quite clearly, Polymorph's use should be highly considered before casting, because depending on your target, you could inadvertainly start a conflict where there shouldn't be one. Quite recently, one of the members of Order of Law staved off disaster by being cool headed about a confrontation with an Order of Nature member, who attacked several times. Nature is under very good leadership indeed, as the situation was resolved perfectly.

To each their own, fellas. No sense continuing such a pointless debate.
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Mike
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Re: Logics: OoN, daemons, animals and OoL

Post by Mike »

You're a funny guy, Geryn. Maybe after a couple of more posts you and I will also get some sort of meaningful discussion going, like Rohan and I did towards the end. But I'm still waiting for that to happen. Peace!
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Quintoz
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Re: Logics: OoN, daemons, animals and OoL

Post by Quintoz »

Geryn, how about you let us run our religion, beocuse last time I checked your not in Imp.
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Re: Logics: OoN, daemons, animals and OoL

Post by Alteran »

Quintoz he is letting you run your religion but , he is giving advise and they should be read that way.
This is a very good debate you all got going here , but i would love if you guys could cut down on the i hate you thing.
I see nature as the place, where you can try out a religion, and find out what it means to be in a religion.
If i where nature and had one that killed animals i would make him into a horse and then banish him then you have given him something to think about , but that just me.
I allso hear that some think law is not allowed to summon guards to aid others and that is one of the things where the Hp can deside what is allowed , and what is not allowed , because the way we the staff see it is that if you can summon guards you are allowed to.
If that is abused to clear out a dungon, the staff will ofcorse punish that player hard.
Nature has now given me the new rules they live by, and they will be posted soon when staff has looked at them.
Hope that cleared up somethings.

Alteran
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