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I don't understand why Magery is geared to fail so much, I realize it has been this way for so long which is why I think there might be some justification here I am yet to see.

From what I have seen so far. Everyone uses scrolls, and even getting in your 2-3 ellies with mana is avoided because it is so unreliable and time consuming.

At first I thought this was a boost to scribes but with the limited mana, expiry timer on summons, and time to meditate, it is already more than enough reason to use scrolls since you can only pump out 2-3 ellies per medit with 100% success, and if you medit more than once your summons are disappearing.

so whats the deal?
whats wrong with 100% success for 7th at 100 skill and 100% success for 8th at 105 skill?

Bestia Domare wrote: so whats the deal?
whats wrong with 100% success for 7th at 100 skill and 100% success for 8th at 105 skill?

Magery cloths would be pretty much useless if it was like this.

Right now, 115 skill has 100% successrate for 8th circle spells. I think that's a good incentive to train magery to 105. If this was to be changed, then magery would have to affect something else than just successrates to not screw over those that have trained magery to 105 and to not make clothes lose their value completely. I've heard the staff has something planned in the future for magic users though.

Demian wrote:

Bestia Domare wrote: so whats the deal?
whats wrong with 100% success for 7th at 100 skill and 100% success for 8th at 105 skill?

Magery cloths would be pretty much useless if it was like this.

Right now, 115 skill has 100% successrate for 8th circle spells. I think that's a good incentive to train magery to 105. If this was to be changed, then magery would have to affect something else than just successrates to not screw over those that have trained magery to 105 and to not make clothes lose their value completely. I've heard the staff has something planned in the future for magic users though.

if thats the case i would not heighten it and just continue using scrolls because you will have to anyway, as i said you would still need scrolls even with 100% success. does magery not affect power of spell?

Bestia Domare wrote: if thats the case i would not heighten it and just continue using scrolls because you will have to anyway, as i said you would still need scrolls even with 100% success.

Well I don't personally see it as a bad thing that casters will have to use scrolls to be truly effective, even if they're fully trained. It's not like they're expensive anyway. But having 115 magery will still open up other "tactics" than just spamming scrolls. Because you will have that guaranteed success you can alternate between scrolls and spellbook etc. Though, if 105 magery had 100% successrate, it wouldn't be any different, since like you said, you'd still use scrolls. It would just take less effort to get to that point compared to how it is now + magery clothes would be useless.

Bestia Domare wrote: does magery not affect power of spell?

Evaluating Intelligence does that. If magery does affect the spellpower it's not by much. Some experienced caster would know better than me though.

Its hugely frustrating to fail spells and it seems wrong that a player needs to be ancient + indy cloth to cast a couple summons before using scrolls.

class fix's should take priority over magery cloth value, if magery cloth only affects success, magery cloth would still be useful for non-ancient characters if we made a change. On top of that, lots of cloths are useless right now.

As far as I can remember, the spell dmg is calculated using both magery and evaluating intelligence (mage spells only). Success rate comes from magery alone, so if you're one elly spamming guy there is no point being a mage. Scrolls are good market for scribes, but their crafting is too time consuming due to mana requirements, which makes scrolls realy expensive.

All in all caster classes require too much money and have very specific cases where any other spell except for summon is actually useful. If I were to compress the caster system on pang in few words it'd be something like this: Very well designed, but also utterly useless with time consumption and high costs.

Review regeant costs and mana costs for both crafting and casting. I think that should fix the caster classes quite easily.


Suggestion for actual changes: Lower the cast time and mana cost significantly on every spell. Especially focus on the single target damage spells, so that there is any point to use them.

I think eval was also supposed to affect chances of getting better ellies - sand/granites and ice for earth and water respectively.

I dont think scrolls take your eval into effect, so no chances of those ellies. However the most commonly used all aorund elly is the fire elly that has no better versions. If you want to incentivise people to spend their mana on spells, having a stronger version of all the ellies could be that, a boost to mages too - more so than other magic users.

That dosnt fix the annoyance of the cast fails tho. I alwais found it silly myself: "Grand Master Mage" failing over three times in a row conjuring a gate for a friend... or spending 5 minutes trying to summon, meditating, summoning etc. and when he finally has a full set of elementals the warrior has murdered whatever beasty it was they were fighting.

As a scribe I'll just say I do not like the idea that with 100% Margery you are unable to cast spells 100% of the time and this is not necessarily because it does or does not boost scribe markets.

The idea behind skill clothes should not be the allowance of the impossible (bowyers with O'hii exceptional composite bows or mages not being able to successfully cast 100% of the time); skill clothes should be improvement of the class so for instance, a mage should be able to cast successful spells 100% of the time if their magery and eval are 100%. Clothing should play a factor in duration, strength and factors such as that, I take the same view on heightened classes. Skill clothing was a terrible idea much the same way heightened classes are in that I have the sneaky suspicion that past staff members were implementing so.thing new they felt if it was super awesome and powerful they would set the skill check at over 100% this making it a requirement to be heightened and/or have a skill cloth .

Demian wrote:
Right now, 115 skill has 100% successrate for 8th circle spells. I think that's a good incentive to train magery to 105. If this was to be changed, then magery would have to affect something else than just successrates to not screw over those that have trained magery to 105 and to not make clothes lose their value completely. I've heard the staff has something planned in the future for magic users though.

Has that been checked? I think I remember failing 8ths with 115 magery before but it is very rare its like 1% of the time or less

113 is pretty neat, whole way through khaldun level 4 and maybe failed 1-2 spells. Magery is the most useful heighten skill imo. It would be painful using a char with 100 magery cos it is awful, 108 isnt even great.

Imo the failrate does need tweaked a bit for less fails between 100-110

Cyrus Tegyr wrote:skill clothes should be improvement of the class so for instance, a mage should be able to cast successful spells 100% of the time if their magery and eval are 100%. Clothing should play a factor in duration, strength and factors such as that, I take the same view on heightened classes.

I agree with this very much, any character with maxed skills should be usable as is, and you should have confidence in their skill.
Any heighten or cloth should add other small improvements or bonuses such as added damage or things like chance of spawning greater elementals.

Magery I think is the worst case of this on the shard as magery is not usable at 100%. If cloth did not exist you would delete your character.