Two Religions - 1 Land

[Jyrgen]

Sure the guilds running the towns and kingdoms could pledge loyalty to either Dennac or Gaea in hope to receive their blessing,

Take that out and you've got something. If religious characters got piety dropped for intervening in mortal conflict the system could work, otherwise it would be the same old Pang system.

+1

Would be fun actually.

[Darian Darkmind]

The religions can't bless their weapons even now, so the "blessing" they receive is more like RP blessing.

A guild could appear before Tekstone seeking for their blessing. "Dennac blesses your war against your enemies, destroy them and you shall be rewarded!" and if the guild manages to defeat their enemies, Tekstone can then support the guild in some way. Maybe Tekstone would build a church in the town for people to pray and seek shelter for. Tekstone wouldn't directly fight by them, instead Tekstone would try to convert people's faith. Same with Nature.

Much like in mediveal times when kings marched to war there were priests blessing their soldiers, to give them courage and peace. The priests themself didn't fight. Of course then there were religions and crusaders - holy men of god - marching against those who believed in "false" gods. This is how I'd like it to go.

I didn't mean religions would directly fight with the guilds, or help them fight except in some very rare occasions - if some guild is fighting against Gaea, Dennac might help them should he see them worthy of his aid. The religion's main focus is in the faith of the people and not in any kingdom, because the affairs of the mortals are so tiny and puny compared to gods. The plans of men doesn't intrest gods, they are only interested in each other.

[Edit] To explain it more simply, the religion would interfere to a fight between guilds only if the other religion has interfered. A guild might think it is wise to ask for a religion to join the fight, because they are so strong and could help them win, but by doing so they anger the other religion and can easily get beaten down by them. I don't think there needs to be a rule to restrict it, because rules restrict RP. It's just something we players should learn to play with. Guilds can ask help from gods, but is it smart to anger another god? Gods can decide to help the guilds, but it's the guilds that are their puppets, not the other way around. The men of god will always be above of mere mortals.

And I meant a kingdom can pledge loyalty to either god, but that does not mean the god will be their puppet or defender. The religions won't be there to fight their war - unlike now with Imperial and Law. The kings will SERVE the god, they will work for the god and religion. They will help the god grow in strength and believers, they will bring his words to other kingdom and people. They will fight for the god while the religious people just sit in their churches preaching for their god.

Maybe due to their power and responsibility, there could even be a vote each time someone wants to join a religion. This means every player can't just make a priest and join them unless he is responsible enough to RP it the way they are commonly meant to be played - without interfering with other players in a direct fight. Starting a holy war would require extreme RP and reasoning and is only possible if it has something to do with the other god.

[Mike]

I find it hard to believe you don't see the obvious problem. Religions are much more powerful per member than guilds, particularly in pvp. Now if religion vs religion is not completely separated from guild vs guild, it will be the same old Pang. Basically the principle has to be that religions fight each other directly while guilds fight each other directly, and no crossover. The kind of sadofetischist scenario you're describing will only have the effect of making people join a religion with their pvp char since they're the strongest, and to that, are supposedly on another level than the guilds.

Like it or not, for the system to work all guilds must operate without influence from religions on the religions will still run the shard.

[Johnny Walac]

Guild vs Guild
Religion vs Religion

That I like. No mix.

[Darian Darkmind]

I see it but it isn't a problem because religions don't fight guilds by default. Even now our main focus is on religions. Guilds are there only because they choose to do so. When they choose to do so, they have no one else to blame then themselves if they get beaten.

Like I said, religion would fight religion. RP-wise religions would try to preach the word of their god to common people and gain the support and trust of the people. Religions would try to convert the casual men to believe in their god and fight and die for him. Religions would try to get different guilds and people to support them and oppose the other god. If a religion does his job well and gain a lot of support then its good for them, they deserve it. However, we all know it only happens in rare occasions. Most players and guilds have always chose not to participate in the godly games.

Let's say guild A and B are at war. Should the guild A stay out from religions, then they have nothing to be afraid of. Should the guild B do the same, they have nothing to be afraid of. Religions would constantly try to convert them by tempting them with power and whatever, but as long as they say no, everything is "fine". Should guild A give in for Nature for a reason or another - for example they can't handle the guild B alone and is ready to accept godly intervention - it doesn't necessarily mean Nature would show up and help them in their PvP. The Nature has bigger things to do: Fight Tekstone. Instead Nature can use their might to threaten the guild B to stop all hostilities, force a peace or surrender or something like that. However, should the guild A promise aid in the fight against Dennac if Nature helps them to beat the guild B, Nature can choose to accept the trade and help them against the guild B and participate in the PvP. In this case the guild B might have to seek help from Tekstone - if they choose to! Yes in this point the guilds have "sold their souls" and would serve the religions and as such religions would "run" them, but there's nothing wrong with that either. The religions would mainly fight against each other, but while fighting they can and try to use normal mortals as pawns in their game - at least those who accept them. Should the guild A be beaten, all they have to do is abandon Gaea and Tekstone will no longer fight them - though then Gaea might seek vengeance upon their betrayal, but even if that's possible they are busy fighting against Dennac and as such the guild A has little to be afraid. And who knows after defeat guild A might even pledge allegiance to Dennac instead in order to avoid being defeated and help him to defeat Gaea. The focus of the gods is not in helping the guilds gain power or fighting their war, but gaining the guilds to help them against the other god.

[Edit]Maybe the allegiance system I suggested would work in this. One start with None and most would always remain as None, but everyone can choose allegiance to either Dennac or Gaea. Sure either religion can try to "force" guilds and players with "none" or with enemy allegiance to pledge allegiance to them with violence, but killing players might backfire and they might pledge allegiance to the other god instead to seek help from him/her. People might not want to have anything to do with a god who kills random people just because they refuse his embrace.[/Edit]

You can think of it like having two games, the game of gods and the game of guilds. The game of gods is the big picture and the game of guilds is the lesser one. The gods try to tempt the guilds, but they don't interfere in PvP with each other by default. They interfere only by guild's own choise. If we completely seperate them by rules, we also remove a lot of possibilities and the game can be very boring very quickly. If we allow them to co-operate and co-exist, we get plenty of politics, and verbal fighting where the religions try to convert the people. Sometimes the games collides and huge fights are fought.

Yes, regular guild members are weaker than a religion member, but like I said the guild only has to fight them if they choose to do so. It's a decision they mustn't do easily, yet it's something both religions try to do all the time. A guild might find an offer from a religion tempting, but they must keep in mind that by accepting it the other god will be veeeeery angry at them.

In other words, guilds can choose to run their own game, fight their own battles and avoid godly intervention. If they do so the religions won't directly participate in their fights. Yet the temptation of power is always there. Accepting it is their own choise and with it they lose control.

[Glarundis]

I see it but it isn't a problem because religions don't fight guilds by default. Even now our main focus is on religions.

*coughs* *coughs*

[Darian Darkmind]

I see it but it isn't a problem because religions don't fight guilds by default. Even now our main focus is on religions.

*coughs* *coughs*

What is that supposed to mean? If you're referring to sieges, Law is a religion and we're fighting against Law/Nature. If the town's didn't belong to religion we wouldn't fight against them. This is why I'd delete both Law and Imperial and give the control of towns to guilds instead.

What I meant religions don't fight guilds by default. They don't hunt them down or declare war on them just because they are a guild. As it is now, Tekstone is the only religion that kills or at least killed a lot of random people and guilds, but should there be only two religions that would change and both religions would instead try to convert the guilds.

[Ares]

Darian.. Seriously dude

I see it but it isn't a problem because religions don't fight guilds by default. Even now our main focus is on religions. Guilds are there only ...

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In other words, guilds can choose to run their own game, fight their own battles and avoid godly intervention. If they do so the religions won't directly participate in their fights. Yet the temptation of power is always there. Accepting it is their own choise and with it they lose control.

It's really hard to focus on what you want to say mate

[Johnny Walac]

Guild vs Guild
Religion vs Religion

That I like. No mix.

I'm just gonna say this again.

Punishment for religions interfering in the wars with guilds.

[Mike]

Guild vs Guild
Religion vs Religion

That I like. No mix.

I'm just gonna say this again.

Punishment for religions interfering in the wars with guilds.

Yep. That's the only way this works, and I'd like to add, it would be nice.