How to minimize bad player experience?

[Cele]

If you're in a guild or religion, you should be strong enough handle yourself.

I have to disagree with this. My non-classed tailor joined a guild and she can barely beat lizardmen.

If it comes down to guild/religion pvp I would suggest that there be criteria on level requirements for joining one of those organizations or obvious warnings that if you are part of such a group you are subject to being ganked.

[Mike]

If you're in a guild or religion, you should be strong enough handle yourself.

I have to disagree with this. My non-classed tailor joined a guild and she can barely beat lizardmen.

If it comes down to guild/religion pvp I would suggest that there be criteria on level requirements for joining one of those organizations or obvious warnings that if you are part of such a group you are subject to being ganked.

Should not equal to did.

Basically what Tale is proposing that when joining a guild your character thereafter defines itself as an adult and accepts full participation in the world. Guilds are fully player run and should this rule be imposed it would be up to the players recruiting someone into the guild to make that clear. The player joining would also be responsible for finding out if the guild has enemies and weigh the risk versus reward. All the support the staff should offer is a sticky on the forum explaining that joining a guild = open for pvp.

[Glarundis]

hmm

getting robbed sucks, i hate it myself. but preventing robbing makes no sense in terms of rp. it's just bad rp imo, and i think that makes as sense as having no pvp at all. having some pvp only is a bit weird. and do note that i really hate getting robbed (who doesn't )

now, the part of me that wants security says limit pvp to guild and religions, but like i said, that's just bad rp.
limiting an area from brit to despise is a bit weird, like there's a huge safezone..perhaps it could work if the safezone doesn't work if you were previously targeted outside of it

the weirdest one is the one i voted for, having rogue guards. it's strange, but it could work, even from an rp point of view. these guards are hired by the towns to protect ppl in their journeys.. (we could add this to the incoming mayor system. a rich town could have a huge radius of protection). however, these guards would stay out of any guild/religion fighting, because it's "not their business". so, pvp and guild come freely war eachother, and is supposed to be. and there also wouldn't be a metagaming safezone, but also robbers wouldn't rob without any sort of worry. they could find the order of law (should that come to exist ) or these guards (which would be scattered here and there)

also, these guards would not act as in the poll. they would always attack reds (which means robbers, unless we have religion vs religion or guild vs guild where one part doesn't accept the war in the guildstone. i hope they do, otherwise this system get messy, because we'll have red robbers and red non-robbers..)

[Cele]

If you're in a guild or religion, you should be strong enough handle yourself.

I have to disagree with this. My non-classed tailor joined a guild and she can barely beat lizardmen.

If it comes down to guild/religion pvp I would suggest that there be criteria on level requirements for joining one of those organizations or obvious warnings that if you are part of such a group you are subject to being ganked.

Should not equal to did.

Basically what Tale is proposing that when joining a guild your character thereafter defines itself as an adult and accepts full participation in the world. Guilds are fully player run and should this rule be imposed it would be up to the players recruiting someone into the guild to make that clear. The player joining would also be responsible for finding out if the guild has enemies and weigh the risk versus reward. All the support the staff should offer is a sticky on the forum explaining that joining a guild = open for pvp.

Sounds like a good way to keep new players/characters and those who do not wish to engage in PvP from participating in that aspect of play.

[Quintoz]

Can we summon Boris to stop this madness, this is just fucking depressing to read.

If you find him let us know


Argon

I see what you're doing now, fuck the shard up as much as possible in an attempt to summon him. Carry on.

[Ivan]

So you guys dont want robbers now and are afraid of losing your gear and getting annoyed, scared and close to stop playing, because of the chance of someone creating a robber char.

You should start to think twice if pang is the right place for you, seriously even if we've not had robbers for a long long while now, I think pang is still about the uncertaintity that can happen. Partialy reflecting on the real life, where someone can fuck you over and get away with it. But what goes around comes around, everything is possible.

Sure the law enforcement part was removed, but I dont see robbers storming out of every freaking corner still. Even if we get multiple robbers on the shard, sooner or later people will respond to it as a community or as guilds. Either they start creating pacts between guilds to protect each others and fight against them OR everyone in the shard becomes an outlaw on some level making decissions who to kill and who to leave alone.

Still this is ideal in the way that you can now create whatever you actualy want (religions, guilds, factions, partnerships, deals with other guilds), instead of the half forced way of having 4 religions with OP tomes running around and making it impossible for the world and community to decide what they actualy want to do.

TLDR: If we start to think about "bad player expierence" what is bad expierence in sandbox world to begin with? Imo its simply imbalance, some class or trait being too powerful to be overcome with any of the other tools available (ie priests before). I think the idea of having a sandbox world is to have it change its form and its state constantly or based on the decissions of players.

[Ert]

My two cents: im not to fond of no-pvp zones except desp and newby grounds. Just imagine if post-tekstone manages to plague all the guards in britt, then walks around town since no one can attack them thanks to the no pvp idea... can create more problem than it would solve i think.

If its just new players we are thinking about you could consider making ther corpses non-lootable (or newbied to prevent corpse camping)... like two week old accounts couldnt be robbed, they could still train on eachother but just not loot eachother. This is similar to the timer thats on stealing - cant steal from new chars.

For a more rp sort of thing you could have roaming guards between desp/britt or a guard outpost somewhere midway.

Alternatively leave it up to players to form guilds/groups to rob the robbers.

Or for the super alternative summon a counselor (maby increase their number a bit for this job) whenever a new player joins the shard! Few people can make a person love the pang like some of the weirdos on that list.

[Argon]

IMO this is only a small tweak where there is an area where we could try to limit the robberies more. Its not that there is not lots of places left because there is.

For a more rp sort of thing you could have roaming guards between desp/britt or a guard outpost somewhere midway.

This is where the second option fits in which is the one I like the most. No rules, just more protection from robbers towards despise.


Argon

[Bella Pious]

There are many reasons for joining a guild :

- You simply want to show people you are in the same community,
- You want to be able to add a nice title. For example, we want 3 magic users who have completely different family names to be the "3 witches".
- Some guild want to help new players and they can recruit new and inexperienced players so they can train together such fighting skills.

You cannot say "join guild" = "OK to get picked on".

My suggestion is actually the opposite : Do not allow PvP between guilds that are not at war with each other. Since later on cities will most likely be associated with guilds/religions, we can see there would be siege in some towns.

- People who join Neutral guild would be allowed to stay neutral, providing it is simply a guild, not religion with special tome.
- People who do not join guilds will be effected by wars.
- And people in opposing guilds will obviously kill each other.

With enough RP reason to provide a guild is neutral and takes over a town, then that town would stay Neutral, with a boundary that tells you "you have now entered Rough Guard zone" and "You are now leaving the Rough guard zone" to ensure no PvP. It will attract people who wants peace to interact with each other. It will push players to care more about the community/guild/religion they should choose to join.

[blckfire]

Still this is ideal in the way that you can now create whatever you actualy want (religions, guilds, factions, partnerships, deals with other guilds), instead of the half forced way of having 4 religions with OP tomes running around and making it impossible for the world and community to decide what they actualy want to do.

It will attract people who wants peace to interact with each other. It will push players to care more about the community/guild/religion they should choose to join.

I don't know if these are total opposites but this what really matters. To have an open world in which everybody can RP as wanted but still keep things in check so if somebody wants to stay away from the PvP madness they can, until they feel ready for it.

This is why Law was in place and in the end also OoI, and that's why some tomes were op. Because it was a way to enforce people to obey the law and give some sense of safety to a new player through a game mechanic. With these two out of the picture we don't know what road the shard will take, but for sure we need to make sure that the people who want to stay out, can stay out until they feel ready for it. Maybe they can even choose never to join this part of the game, and this is where real life and games always go separate ways.

In other games like, WoW, for example, you have to progress through the game until you are level x (not a WoW player) before you can participate in some PvP action. The game itself leads you through it and when it feels you are ready for it, pushes you to cross your limits and cross the boundary between safety and being in danger. I say WoW, but I could say any other MMORPG. The fact that UO doesn't have a layered game play experience makes it hard to find a way to address this issue of having players of lvl 1 being constantly murdered and robbed by a player, or several of lvl 80.

So, that's why we need to find a way to ensure that players, when ready can join the real fight.

Btw, the current newbie protection system is also a nice idea, but with some added tweaks. We can ensure, for example, that for each class, a player needs to get to a certain number in stats before he can be attacked, this could be done right after he leaves the baseclass or later on.