Which of these Fighter classes (still) need boosting?

[Boris]

Simply collecting data and opinions.

Generally I think magic users are in much better balance than fighters. Every class has a clear role and every class is better than another at least in one area. We can add small things here and there, but they don't need anything massive.

Fighter category still requires work. We've done a lot of work on them already, but I'm still not completely happy with them. A balanced class system is something we advertise on Gamesites200 - so it's something that needs to be worth advertising. Generally it has always been worth advertising (if you check class systems of other shards, I think they're light years behind and always have been) and it will never be perfect, but development is always welcomed. So the question simply is, which classes still need some boosting?

(1) There are 3 classes that we haven't touched directly at all. Those three are Priests, Barbarians and Archers - as we think they're either too good or good enough. I doubt that line will change anytime soon. (2) Also we rather boost the weak, than nerf the strong. (3) The class system structure is considered sacred and only flaws are corrected. Keep those three thing in mind before you post.

- Boris

[Boris]

Unrelated posts will be removed.

Stay on topic.

- Boris

[Zaradon]

Barbarian

Variety Aspect;
* There are following categoriez; Ranged, Tome, Pokehunting, Spells, Meelee, Rogue abilities.
* Barbarian was always lacking for variety in the game, always the same, old and boring urban knocking style.
* He can't control pets, he can't shoot bolts, there's no safe play for him and elemental system vs. crafted armors on Pang make the class restricted to religious pvp/RP only.

Defense Aspect;
* I think in this thread, you are giving me permission to compare classes with eachother, but that's exactly what you want to see why players pick "Those three classes"
* Barbarians always lack for defense, making them similar to priests, lets say a fully trained (175 base str) barbarian is a 40 piety maxed priest. However, Armament is favoring meelee fighters too much in religions - i do really hope you will take my idea into consideration about Armament (tie it to piety classes)
* Considering Barbarians have the highest HP, but low end armor (and defenses) they could really use a shape-up at some point, i am not pointing to more defense but im pointing to better effect kicks from crafted armors to compensate the physical defenses. Their survivability is close to numb due to 85 resist/low armor - and combine that with elemental system. Even the current armor system wont make it any better unless the barbarian is armamented (aka - twice as much AR as non armamented barb)

Survivability Aspect;
* The most important factor of a maxed Barb, i've tried full dex barbarian myself. It's a nice kick to have 185 str/ 155 dex with a maul, but considering the low armor and lower amount of HP, i ended up being able stand a chance only against Ophidian Queens (yes they were helpless vs. speedmauling) But if i met a Fiend or some higher end mob, you may figure what happened with 0 int (Rhodium setup > 160/130)
* Armament is the mere mistake given for non-piety classes and Barbarians are the only class suffering from being balanced yet, they are overpowered in religions DUE to Armament. The amount of AR/HP religious Barbarian can generate, is just ridicilous and unfair vs. nonreli barbarians and that's the ONLY class having the HIGHEST benefit from Armament.
* I have been using priests in the past to bless me, hitting 300+ to great/royal dragons may have been fun but that took it's own nerfs, barb's hit got nerfed at Alteran's era. That's only because of Armament.

Damage output Aspect;
* I've tried to explain to a certain staffmember about the current non-religious barbarian situation and he didn't really understand what i was trying to tell him. So i will compare my 40 piety (ancient) priest with my 175 str (ancient) barbarian.
Both similar dmg logs on same mob. (Electric fiend)
Priest/Scepter/110 dex; 59 dmg/2 sec interval/110 dmg/2 sec interval/130 dmg/2 sec interval - 6 seconds/299
Barb/Maul/80 dex; 80dmg/3.5 sec interval/160dmg/3.5 sec interval/90 dmg/3.5 sec interval - 9,5 seconds/330
* This is what i consider as "baba hit sucks" as they hit so slow and considering that a priest does less dmg at 6 seconds, then at 9 seconds he already does more than the barbarian, add the missrate, add the critical hit chance...You have it much to say that barbarians out of religion suck balls..

[Boris]

Religions are unrelated. Anyone can join a religion to receive the same gain.

Last time I say this, keep religions out of this discussion.

. Boris

[Toby Frost]

I would also like to agree with Zara.. My barbarian has less hit chance as a priest with less damage output..

Archers are awesome and always have been. Archery itself is expensive which kind of balances out the class a damage to cost aspect. Baba's cannot compare with the damage output of an archer.. Their bow hits are stronger and they have poison which ticks. No contest the highest damage output character in the game with the best stats (You can max stats 120/130/15.)

If you want my opinion on how to start balancing out the priest / baba classes then switch their armor. Baba suits are now what priests wear and baba's get full chains.

Barbarians need 10 extra statcap for dex to be able to hit well really at all.. 175/85/20 base might help our damage output.

[Boris]

According to the current data, Assassins and Warriors need boosting. I think both of those classes are better than players imagine.

The problem with Assassins is that people don't generally have high enough Poisoning to recieve all the bonuses. Purely PvP-wise when you compare Assassins and Archers, it's all about poisoning vs. healing. Out of those two, I would choose poisoning any time.

What comes to Warriors, I would compare them mostly with Barbarians. The main difference between these two is the same as above, healing. Higher STR combined with lower armor vs. Full plates, weaker healing and poisoning. If it was that simple, I would most likely prefer Barbarians, but the higher HP regeneration changes the game. As proven in the past, 65% healing + HP regeneration beats 85% healing - when comparing purely which one heals more in 60 seconds. Of course that's all just theory and data.

Another thing I would point out is regeneration working while being poisoned. Even if you're poisoned, you still regenerate 10HP every 5 seconds. In a way it works like natural poison resistance of Assassins: it weakens the poison. Let say greater poison does -16HP every tick, but since you regenerate +10HP every tick, the poison's only does -6HP every tick.

- Boris

[Johnny Walac]

As proven in the past, 65% healing + HP regeneration beats 85% healing

Whohoho no.

Archers need boost. They are squishy with low damage output in PvP.

[Simmo]

Another thing I would point out is regeneration working while being poisoned. Even if you're poisoned, you still regenerate 10HP every 5 seconds. In a way it works like natural poison resistance of Assassins: it weakens the poison. Let say greater poison does -16HP every tick, but since you regenerate +10HP every tick, the poison's only does -6HP every tick.

- Boris

Yeah but how do you even cure it? You need like 2 greater cures for it while with priest i have cured it and healed another 50hp + 2 greater heals what my priest or even archer can use instead of greater cures. You see stuff only on paper not in action. Id choose 85 healing anyday over 65 healing (useless) and 10 per tick.

[Boris]

Archers need boost. They are squishy with low damage output in PvP.

DBS is now their scepter(++). Better from every aspect and can be poisoned.

You see stuff only on paper not in action.

Like I said, just in theory. If it was as good or better, it would get nerfed.

- Boris

[Mike]

Archer:
Good in PvM, needs survivability in small group PvP.

Knight:
Damage kinda low for the supposed tradeoff in armor. Could use better damage reduction. Plate boost?

Priest:
Moar damage in PvP!