Consistency in roleplay?

[Charha]

When it comes to for example D&D, it's not the internal landscape of the character but their actions that create the shift in the alignment. Whether a deed is good or bad is not determined by the character but the game system. From my experience there's not much room for individual interpretation. In (according to my view) the worst rule settings we even have spells that affect only "chaotic" or "lawful" people. This is equal to saying that a magic candle flickers when a bad person enters the room. For some reason the candle knows who's been naughty and the sun only shines to good people. I think this is just plain silly. Sure, it works quite well in stories and fairy tales, but I feel that in a RP setting for grown-ups the concept of alignments ultimately undermines the complexity of a person's mind.

Furthermore, I don't think that good and evil are immovable concepts even on a subjective level. People can change their minds quite radically even within a short period of time. Or the change might be a gradual one. Or people might change their mind about one thing, but stick to their beliefs when it comes to some other thing. A person might think that cruelty is not justifiable in general, but he or she might start finding excuses and making exceptions when there's a passing or lasting emotional need to do so. People might change their views consciously or subconsciously. People don't always know what they're doing. They can even live in complete self-denial. "Why is this f*king candle flickering? I'm a goddamn saint."

I think it's perfectly okay to justify a character's seemingly weird or inconsistent actions by stuff like "I was possessed by an evil spirit" as long as the situation is roleplayed well. If, on the other hand, the effort seems half-hearted, it's still better than nothing. And the other players can always express their disbelief: "I think he's not being sincere, maybe he's hiding something?" That's in game feedback.

Edit & tl;dr: Aaaanyway, alignments shmalignments - I know my quest for the philosopher's stone of RP is getting a little beside the point. I do understand that the main problem are still, and always, the players who run about in game complaining about how their computer is being laggy and asking people what alt characters they have. If there's going to be a RP school somewhere, I'll gladly be the janitor.

[Kat Asherstone]

but I feel that in a RP setting for grown-ups the concept of alignments ultimately undermines the complexity of a person's mind.

but most players on here are not "grown-ups", so alignments or at least a good understanding of them for new players or not really what they are but WHY there are alignments is a great starting point on which to build... the abc's before the words.

[Charha]

Yes, I do agree with you on that. One has to start from somewhere. Definitely. And I understand that while my characters' greatest life decisions usually revolve around what to wear for work and where to get their cough drops, many people build their characters' personalities starting from the very extremes. If a character's moral pendulum swings from sadism to sainthood overnight, there ought to be a helluva story to back it all up.

I still get a rash every time alignments are mentioned since I find the entire concept so odd (and oddly popular in RPGs). I couldn't for the world figure out which category my characters belong to any more than I could categorize my own nature and demeanor. In my book everyone always ends up more or less "neutral" because I find that human mind is really not that consistent and that every single step people take can be analyzed on so many levels. But this is just a pet peeve of mine and it's really not a problem here on Pangaea anyway because we don't have any obscure moral compasses encoded in the game mechanics.

[Kat Asherstone]

If a character's moral pendulum swings from sadism to sainthood overnight, there ought to be a helluva story to back it all up.

but there usually isn't on Pang... which imo is bad RP.

[Johnny Walac]

Pangaea isn't pen&paper where is no such thing called "game mechanism" that can fu** around alot with the RP. Do remember Pangaea is a game. I would even say the game is/should be prioritized way before the RP should. There is a reason Pangaea have stayed alive for so long, it's because the custom scripting of Ultima Online is so bloody great. But obviously we want a casual balance between UO and RP. Pangaea is a place for anyone who likes either or all of PvP, PvE and RP. Some like one more then the other.

[Raemonn]

If a character's moral pendulum swings from sadism to sainthood overnight, there ought to be a helluva story to back it all up.

but there usually isn't on Pang... which imo is bad RP.

Emphasis on the "in your opinion".

It's not very imaginative, no. But nothing bad per se with people retconning character stories or personas. This is a server, not a university-level creative writing module with course credit. At least people with pendulum-like character arcs are trying to roleplay by trying out different things, looking for a character they're comfortable roleplaying. I'd personally prefer the more positive approach by encouraging this, rather than slap the "BAD ROLEPLAY, HURRRR"-trout on them.

One might argue that some of these people are lazy roleplayers. Perhaps, but I highly doubt any incentive/system/whatchamajinks is going to make them improve.

[Glarundis]

sorry, didn't have the will to read the rest of the pages after my last post.
but about the alignments, i don't think they belong here. i don't even think they belong anywhere in a free world rp game. at best they belong to those "rp" (lol) games that claim to work based on that system, but that's like putting something as strict as a class system on a char's personality.

you can very well understand your char is a mage or a warrior or a smith. but what does it mean to be lawful good or chaotic good?it's very vague, and imo doesn't help that much.

what you have to know about your char is that he's good or he's evil, but that's so basic that everyone knows that. it's a matter of choice, a very simple choice. but if you decide you're going to be "lawful" or "chaotic" it's already another issue and involves more things which are, imo, weird...and the more i try to "define" this the more i get nowhere and my thoughts spiral into themselves trying to explain myself so yeah, i'll stop it here

[Charha]

I also think that the biggest problem here aren't the players who at least attempt to bring RP elements into the game. No matter how clumsy their attempts are as they alter their werewolves into mermaids, it's better than nothing.

In my book the real culprits are people who don't bother with the RP stuff at all. "I'm killing all this guy's characters in game because I hate him IRL" kind of stuff, you know. I also recall that back in the days "veritas hi" was also a bit of a problem when it came to PvP.

[Kat Asherstone]

In my book the real culprits are people who don't bother with the RP stuff at all. "I'm killing all this guy's characters in game because I hate him IRL" kind of stuff, you know. I also recall that back in the days "veritas hi" was also a bit of a problem when it came to PvP.

yeah like walac said "I would even say the game is/should be prioritized way before the RP should. "


that's the problem, we got too many people on an RP server that don't give two shits about RP or even a standard or RP.

fact is either we get a standard and incentivize or we keep going down the road of lack luster RP that is ONLY there as a guise for more PvP... which would be fine... except that wasn't the intention of the server in the first place.
Pang stayed alive this long because of the Roleplay.

The only reason any Vet comes back to the server is because they don't find the quality roleplay you used to find on Pang... unfortunately they come back see what Pang has become and leave.

If you want to add to the conversation some idea on how to further raise roleplay by all means, but if you want to try and undermine it more walac I would suggest starting a topic called "Why Pang shouldn't care about Roleplay" or something along those lines.

[Johnny Walac]

Now you are simply trying to cause beef. I never said we shouldn't care about roleplay. I very clearly said we should have a casual balance between UO and RP. So those who wanna only use Ultima Online as a RP simulation can do that. But not everyone wanna do that. Pangaea is Ultima Online. A world of PvE, Crafting, PvP and alot more. You keep saying I am trying to undermining which is just you trying to start beef. It is your topic so try to stay on it. If you are talking about my RP post in your RP post it is a consequense for your character actions. I don't see how you can complain about that because you made a topic about consistency in roleplay. So stop your hypocrisy and try to discuss this topic without personal jumps for once.