Potential policy change re: restoring characters

[Johnny Walac]

Big no for restoring player deleted characters.

Yes for restoring old player accounts.

[aldath c'om]

Big no for restoring player deleted characters.

Yes for restoring old player accounts.

im with johnny here.
if you delete the chars its your fault. inactivity might not be your fault so that could be done then. back when i was nature i lost my appartment and had no internet connection for half year so i lost houses and stuff and i can live with that. but if i had lost my characters too i probably couldnt get arsed to start over again.

[Cyrus Tegyr]

On a game like this where you can lose months of playtime in 10 seconds sometimes people are going to act irrationally- Not everybody has the presence of mind to take a break for a while and I don't believe they should be punished for that especially when we have people of all different ages and personalities here.

Well, discipline is the key here, anyone who has played an online game such as Ultima must surely know that you never delete your characters unless you are absolutely 100% certain that you are never going to return, doesn't matter if you fail a macro check, lose an indy tactics cloth, lose a house, killed your royal2 dragon by accident, went red, had a horse poo on your house floor in game, forgot to lock down a chest with all your gold, forgot to lock your door, died to an ettin...The list as you can see goes on and on, all trivial, items can be earned again, timers can be waited out, horse poop cleaned up. Regardless of whether or not someone doesn't have the presence of mind or clarity that the rest of us seem to have, saying that they shouldn't be punished by their rash actions I completely agree with you however, they aren't really being punished if they delete their own characters/items now are they? It was a choice made by themselves, so if anything they are exercising virtual self flagellation. Not something others should have to take responsibility for.

I really thought this was a clear and cut issue, regardless of how simple it is to copy and paste a character(s) from an old cfg file to the new one shouldn't matter, they've taken that step and should have to deal with it on their own terms, if that means we lose someone who makes irrational decisions at inconvenient times, so be it. It's a harsh stand I know but you can't babysit every decision someone makes, at some point we, the players, have to be accountable for our actions. If someone wishes to return bad enough, they will make the time and build new characters.

[Masano]

I guess Im just in the minority here. I dont care if someone rage quits and then gets their chars back and I dont care if some old guy gets their lost chars back because niether would affect my enjoyment of the game.

[Cyrus Tegyr]

Restoration of an old account is one thing.

Restoration of someone who foolishly let's a mere game get to them to the point where they irrationally delete their characters than a few months later whines about it as if someone forced them to do it is another.

[Masano]

Theyve already put the 'work' in macroing to gain the skills so yeah I still do not see the problem with somebody doing exactly that (exluding the whine). They dont gain anything more than what theyve already earnt.

What would be the difference to the game if someone just left for a few months and then came back? Absolutely none. Its the fact that you know someones deleted it and got it back that seems to annoy people which just means your all mean

[Glarundis]

I guess Im just in the minority here. I dont care if someone rage quits and then gets their chars back and I dont care if some old guy gets their lost chars back because niether would affect my enjoyment of the game.

you're not alone
i don't see what's the big issue about this
theoretically there should be no restored characters in these cases, but what's the problem?a guy did something out of rage or whatever, and now he's sorry. so what?what's ppl's problem with it?i could understand if the question was "if lhoth gets his chars back, i have to let go of one of my chars". but the issue is "if lhoth gets his chars back, nothing happens to me" (except of course interactions IG with those chars)
this ain't even about forgiving people, because this isn't real life issue, and he didn't commit a crime. it's a game. A GAME!

[Cyrus Tegyr]

i could understand if the question was "if lhoth gets his chars back, i have to let go of one of my chars". but the issue is "if lhoth gets his chars back, nothing happens to me" (except of course interactions IG with those chars)
this ain't even about forgiving people, because this isn't real life issue, and he didn't commit a crime. it's a game. A GAME!

Well I am not considering the lhoth case here, somehow you have the notion that I am. If you think that's the case you have been erroneously mislead in your thinking. Personally I've only had a few encounters with him in game, none of them particularly positive but none of them particularly detrimental to my character or have I viewed as personal attacks, I have had far more grievous wounds from others, some of them coming from those who I thought were on my side. I'll admit that in times of anger I can say things that I might regret later but I am able to put those petty differences aside and step back and view the picture as a whole instead of focusing in on that one imperfect pixel.

I am just saying that it shouldn't be the case that people can rage quit and delete their characters and than come back as if nothing happened. I don't care who it is, it could be Vaux or Troy that delete their characters or you Glar and I would still take the same stance. This has nothing to do with personal animosity or malice that I hold against anyone, it's a point of accounting for one's actions. When you make an aberrant and imprudent decision such as deleting your characters in a fit of rage, you were not forced into it. No one gave you a dictate stating either you delete your characters or suffer the consequences, I know however that sometimes people feel that they were backed into a corner by some fictitious transgressor, but in the end it is a decision, for better or worse, made at a time when you should of instead stepped back from the game and tried to figure out other means of getting yourself out of whatever situation you were in.

You're absolutely correct, it doesn't effect my game play whatsoever if someone rage quits and then gets their stuff back, however, it's the principle of the matter. I wouldn't let my child get away with throwing a fit, why should I let an adult get away with it. (I am assuming that everyone here on Pangaea is older than 5).

Now much has been said of "well in this current player base we should allow for a change in rule" I meant to address this earlier but don't think I did. This is a very big trap we're stepping into if this is going to be the main argument for this rule to change. Using this argument to get rules changed, one can put up a pretty similar argument for changes to other rules, "well with the current player base we should get rid of macro checks or lessen their penalties because someone might get butt hurt and quit Pangaea" for instance. To me this is a moot point, people will come and go, there isn't much to be done about it, making the shard easier with lightened rules doesn't necessarily mean people will stay or return. Perhaps I take a fatalistic view to players coming and going, but nothing has really swayed my opinions about using this argument to improve player base when used in the arguments for other "ideas" or "rule changes" and alas, it won't here either.

As I stated, restoration of old accounts perhaps a few months old (or however far back the shard back ups go) due to inactivity is one thing, but a deletion of a character(s) by the player is a whole different beast, when do you draw the line?

If my stance makes me out to be deplorable, then so be it, as stated, this isn't an opinion based on animosity toward anyone, it has to do with making people accountable for their own actions and decisions. Throwing a fit and deleting your characters in a most trivial and infantile fit of rage should not be tolerated to the extent that you can just get a slap on the wrist, if that, and wait a month or so before crawling back and saying in effect, "I didn't mean to do that." When in fact, it was exactly what you meant to do and now you regret your actions. You have the freedom to either step away from the game or delete your characters when you get pissed off, the decision is yours and yours alone.

I do apologize, I didn't intend to bring anyone's name into this, but I felt I had to state where my opinions were coming from because to me using someone's name, I felt that people might think that my views were a personal attack on that person, they are indeed not.

[Boris]

Also there's no reference to any case. If a new policy would be taken to use, it wouldn't affect any of you guys (including Lloth). Only all new cases in the future. I think the golden road (restore 1 character butt naked) is something to consider. Applies only to lost accounts of course. Although if all old data is deleted, I don't know if there's much to do.

- Boris

[Darian Darkmind]

Previous policy: No deleted characters can be restored, full spot.
Proposed policy: Going forward, the GMs may (up to their discretion) restore character(s) that have not been deleted as a result of the passage of time. I.e. if you're away longer than 6 months or a year, or whatever it is, then you're still hooped.

Although I partly agree with Masano about restoring even self-deleted characters, because it's easy and quickly done, I must also disagree. If you delete your own characters out of rage, it's your own stupidity and people like that often repeat the same mistakes. The question is, do we want to hold on to players like that who take the game too personally and too seriously? They might be active players, but is their contribution positive enough to hold on to? We are not life-coaches here like Ares said, but such players will most likely only cause problem on the long run. Maybe it could be forgiven and restored once, but that's it. If you didn't learn on the first time, then it's your shame the next time.

I would much rather allow the possibility of restoring characters that have been deleted due to inactivity. Restoring those characters could potentially bring new old players to the shard whereas a player who rage-quit will most likely rage again. I know some who had wanted to return, but didn't because their accounts no longer existed and they simply did not have the time, the will or energy to start all over again.

I can undestand old accounts being wiped of items and houses due to causing lag, but I don't see a reason why they must be deleted in the first place. It can't be those few accounts and characters that "lag" the server that bad and caused the great crash/item-wipe? If that's the case, perhaps the old accounts and characters could be moved to a digital heaven, in other words backupped out of the server to another hard-drive thus reducing the lag. And if any player ever returns, we can retrieve his account and characters from the other hard-drive - without any items though.