The ridiculous state of PvP

[Demian]

Don't know how much time Boris used to spend on these complaints and such, but I have to say that when he said the word it was final. Thus the issue ended right there. Right now it feels the staff can't make decisions and some even admit to not knowing the rules. And I'm not trying to be an asshole. We have good staff members still but someone like Boris is needed.

You guys are annoyed because we're putting effort into making the right decision?

No, that's a good thing. But we are annoyed because it seems every staff member has different opinions and another staff member can just suddenly change a verdict (has happened). And because some staff members don't know the rules or just don't follow them but rather make decisions on what feels right (has happened aswell, for an example in a situation of falsly accusing another player which should be punishable but the rule is ignored on purpose. Which also is a big reason as to why staff gets so much complaints -> false accusations are not being punished for).

Boris knew the rules, and he made the decisions based on rules, word by word. Without having to discuss it with every other staff member who doesn't know the rules and come up with a verdict that the rules don't have anything to do with. And I guess it's pretty clear that what Boris was doing worked since he didn't need to be making rule changes to restrict the players the way you guys are suggesting now.

[Palma]

I wasn't going to comment on any of these posts and polls, I felt I'd be thrown down a lot. Because I share Boris's opinion and I know how my posts always feel. People think I'm flaming and insulting others when I'm not. Because a lot of drama envolves me for liking pvp. Hell people actually think I was declaring war on my good mate Dargon and stuff -_- Even though I pretty much copy pasted Wallac's post and signed with "Skrin the commedian"... I was trying to proove a point that if some things are allowed, they have to be allowed for everyone and the whole shard could change because of it.

You guys should really take a deep breath and think about what people tell you even if you don't like it.

This whole thread seems a lot like you guys taking your mistakes on the players, that's how I felt when I first read it.

Every discussion I've seen taking place with you guys, it somehow seems that people have to keep explaining you the rules of pvp, different sides copy pasting you different rules, it seems like you're dealing about the subject with feelings, being influenced by others, etc. You also change your minds on a daily basis and there's no "rest" here. Every day there's some new drama that consumes too much time for everyone. That should be solved simply by following the rules written down by years and years of experience. Not with new interpertations and posts with the punch line of "If you don't like it then get lost".

In my humble opinion and not trying to be out of place here, I think that if you guys stop trying to please everyone and spending so much time on each player's personal drama, just do what the rules say without different "ways of interpretation", you will have more space to breath and things come better on their own.

About each topic on the POLLs, none of them seems well thought of and pondered, seems like a "way out" of all the late problems. I can see many flaws on each and how they'd cause a lot of issues. Not only that, I think they trample each other. Like the insurance system with the no looting and the pvpon/off for example.

We can't run away from issues by creating more. However, with this topic, I think it's time for all of us, GMs, AGs, Imps, Teks, etc. To sit down and find some common grounds. Put our differences aside and all gather to solve this.
Because if we don't, stuff like what's in this topic will happen and that's not good for all of us.

It is my most sincere wish that people read this post without thinking I have different agendas, plans, edited the video, etc etc. Or that I'm trying to insult in any way. I'm just expressing here.

P.S. - A lot of posts have been placed between Boris's post and this one. So sorry if I said anything repeated or out of turn. I took a while to write this. No one would mind if pvp is off for a month for that matter. Let's just solve all there is to solve before we continue playing our game.

[Darian Darkmind]

The way I see it, it was in fact Boris' administration that lead to this situation. When he left, it exploded and came crumbling down. The truth is there's not been any "game-changing" changes done after he resigned. Now the current staff has to work on the ruins and try to fix it. Not an easy task, because everyone tends to blame them for it even though it clearly isn't their fault.

[Palma]

It's no one's fault specifically Darian if you ask me... But none of us, both GMs or players, can take it out on one another. We're all a group here who plays daily with one another. In the end that's what we have to consider.

We all have to be happy here and enjoy this xD These pvp rules won't fix a thing imo, they can't because they were too rushed in with a purpouse of fixing something that can't be fixed like this.

[Hilda]

What I see is the staff trying to make so pang isn't a russian pvp shard and people complaining about the changes so that pvp remains as close to a russian pvp shard as it can be.

[Kat Asherstone]

Don't know how much time Boris used to spend on these complaints and such, but I have to say that when he said the word it was final. Thus the issue ended right there. Right now it feels the staff can't make decisions and some even admit to not knowing the rules. And I'm not trying to be an asshole. We have good staff members still but someone like Boris is needed.

The decisions are final. We've just had to take some time to mull it over as we openly admitted being unaccustomed to the situation.

You guys are annoyed because we're putting effort into making the right decision?

I think, not to sound dickish, this goes back to what I was trying to say... You're Admin, You're God in a way... and God NEVER asks "what should I do?"
He just does...and people deal, We'll deal... like I said in PM's you give a direction, whatever it is, I'll follow it... and I think that goes for most of the players here.

[Ares]

You guys don't understand. The current system is shit because it creates an excessive workload for the staff, because it creates many situations that needs GM intervention and because none of us can be arsed sorting out pvp whine.

I'd rather tighten up the rules and the pvp framework and not make you guys so self-governing anymore. Like "loot anyone at any time for any reason" - and then trust the players to not think of bullshit reasons to use loopholes etc to do what they want.

[Cirius Do'Brim]

Just accept the fact, that players make mistakes and GM's make mistakes. Even I did plenty of mistakes when I started GM'ing, but you learn from them and with time, you do less mistakes. Experience is the key. Going back and forth (being for better or worse) is the last thing to do. That only makes leadership look unstable and unsure.

I don't see any flaws in the playerbase or the "current shit system". In the beginning solving PvP issues may take some time, but when you know the rules without opening a browser or when you've judged similar cases in the past, they take less and less time. They don't take days or hours, we're talking of minutes if not seconds.

[Ivan]

I cant understand how hard it is to decide a pvp situation, ignore all the bullshit from third party sources. Take the proof pictures and check them, if there is nothing wrong in them its a nay, unless proven otherwise. Rules are quite clear imo.

Besides only thing that you have to have pictures from is the RP afterall, its so simple that basicaly all people can whine about. Special cases like boats and stonewalls are mentioned in the rules and should be dealt with accordingly, ofcourse providing the one who accuses of player about suchs action has a proof as a picture of the situation. etc.

[Kat Asherstone]

The way I see it, it was in fact Boris' administration that lead to this situation. When he left, it exploded and came crumbling down. The truth is there's not been any "game-changing" changes done after he resigned. Now the current staff has to work on the ruins and try to fix it. Not an easy task, because everyone tends to blame them for it even though it clearly isn't their fault.

As much as I hate to say it, I disagree in a way...
Before Boris the shard was in quite a bit of disarray and he was able to get it back into some kind of working order...
However, lets face a simple fact... during that time of administration the rules of PvP became more relaxed, some rules were not enforced that should have absolute priority, like the mistreatment of new players (something we ALL know I cannot stand) but ultimately we gained a SHIT TON of great things.
If you look at the amount of things that happened during his Administration it far outweighs any "bad" that might be going on now in terms of a "cleanup"

That being said

Current staff... you guys got nothing to worry about, if anyone is blaming you for this "problem" their just angry, maybe they are mad that it's not being fix'd quick enough for their taste, maybe they are mad because it's being fix'd and they'd rather just go back to the current status quo.
The fact of the matter remains, something is going to be done...

I personally think that the majority of the problem lies with #5 and removing the cancerous players that are merely here to grief others and find enjoyment in utilizing all of their resources for that goal... that is not only unacceptable from a meta-gaming stance but that's unacceptable in the idea that Pangaea is a "world community"
It's one thing to grief someone on a game... it's another when your SOLE REASON for playing is to grief and entire world... that kind of person has no place here imho, in fact they have no place IRL and should probably be taken out back and put down... the fact that it's being done in a meta-game format just proves to me that the kind of people doing that, don't see this as a "roleplaying game" but as a "personal" thing

Last night during a D&D campaign I found one of the players stealing a relic from a priest... with a priest in the party, when she realized what happened she chastised the Thief for his actions and eventually when it all came down to it, he was found out and the guards came to haul him off... then a little bit of metagaming occured and THIS is what's the important part...
"When I play the game I'm playing a version of myself" -Theif
"So you would steal from a priest?!"- Priest
"Well no...I'd probably end up going to jail"
"so what you are saying is that if it wasn't real jail, it's ok...because it's just a game and the consequences aren't real?"
"No that's not it"
"Well what is it? You just said you are playing a version of yourself..."
"It's easier to answer questions when I'm just being myself instead of in the shoes of the character"
"So you really would steal from a priest then... wow you're a shitbag"
"....damn, I didn't think about it like that"

Exactly... he didn't think about it, he just played the game without being the character... and that happens here EVERY DAY... people use the meta-game for an advantage, sometimes out of spite for other players... but why? Because its just a game?
Perhaps people are missing the point of "games" or the psychological effects of games on people... so I'll try and make it simple
Games are life... Games cause changes in the brain similar to the same kinds of changes found in the human brain during REAL COMBAT... this might be a game on a screen and you might know it's a game... but deep down, your evolutionary mechanics are telling you... THIS SHIT IS REAL!
You die to a dragon, you get pissed... because your brain is subconsciously letting you know... if this WAS real, you'd be DEAD... this is why PvP causes so many people to get sooo butthurt that they want ABSOLUTE Revenge, they forget about "being the character" and they start being themselves... because their brain is forcing them to, it's MAKING them try harder, think deeper and screw the RP cause that's just something slowing down this possible "life and death" situation.

I use many different characters and try and keep them ALL very different and distinct because I don't want to end up raging out and cheating just to prove I'm the biggest and best and that I can be the victor in the "life and death" struggle of "games"... because there is always a bigger dog, it just might take you a while to find him...


So TLDR; #5, All Day Long, Ain't no body got time for that and no one should be forced to have time for that