The ridiculous state of PvP

[Ares]

Don't think you could have missed my last message. Jailed for 24 hours.

[Vaux27]

I just have to say, lol.

I've discussed with GMs some ideas that I've had to improve the atmosphere. Give more incentive in other areas and hopefully ton down this PvP griefing going around. Ultimately it comes down to all of us being mature and stop the IG bs, that's all there is to it. We're all old enough to know this already, it's whether we all choose to make it happen.

[Nymphea]

I know we are all older players and some stuff may be out-dated and boring for you guys (specially ones in religions) but I haven't seen any religion actually rp. Everytime I pass by someone from a religion or someone from religions passes by me, it's ignore-ignore fly through.

For example:
TEKSTONE - chaos bringer? I haven't seen anyone plague anything and cause chaos in years. Noone asked me to 'bow to Dennac' 'Recieve his gift' or whatever.
IMPERIAL - why do you keep to yourselves? Haven't heard priest preaching in a while, as much as it annoyed me while I was taming on Imp lands, I miss it now! At least there was some contact.
NATURE - haven't seen any in a while, except while raiding dungeons... Where're the talks about balance and stuff?
LAW - don't have an opinion about law, tbh.

If these are outdated and already lived by you, maybe it's time to try another religion and walk in others shoes for a while.

I am not sure if I am close to a solution, but without those few simple words, and someone taunting someone, can pvp possible fun?

[Iktomi]

This post was largely to get our thoughts out there in a serious way and foster some actually useful conversation (which I think it has done so). All us GMs have different preferred methods of resolving things I think, so this sort of preferences measurement helps in our discussions.

Feel free to continue discussing, and keep it useful.

[Iktomi]

The main issue we have is people using every possible method to PvP. We change the rules, they maximise their PvP opportunities out of those rules, change them again, same issue. We could end up making the rules way stricter than they need be only because of the behaviour of a few people (spread throughout all factions).

EDIT: By putting all the emphasis on the rules, it has taken PvP focus away from RolePlaying and made it all about RulePlaying.

[Quintoz]

I've been reading this topic and I considered making a Darkmind - level post saying nothing but instead all I'm going to say is that people are considering getting killed in PvP as "Griefing" and either change your mindset or stay in the guardzone and run when you see a red name.

Oh on a last note Darkfall 75% off

[Prince]

I've been reading this topic and I considered making a Darkmind - level post saying nothing but instead all I'm going to say is that people are considering getting killed in PvP as "Griefing" and either change your mindset or stay in the guardzone and run when you see a red name.

i have to agree

[Tyrion]

The main issue we have is people using every possible method to PvP. We change the rules, they maximise their PvP opportunities out of those rules, change them again, same issue. We could end up making the rules way stricter than they need be only because of the behaviour of a few people (spread throughout all factions).

EDIT: By putting all the emphasis on the rules, it has taken PvP focus away from RolePlaying and made it all about RulePlaying.

I'd rather tighten up the rules and the pvp framework and not make you guys so self-governing anymore. Like "loot anyone at any time for any reason" - and then trust the players to not think of bullshit reasons to use loopholes etc to do what they want.

This is what I was going to suggest, albeit from a different angle. Script a system that provides guidance based on design and not personal opinion. I've made topics numerous times about increasing the options for diplomacy, and giving the players more power to self-govern themselves. The reasons for one guild wanting to attack another guild can be handled IG or not, in the end, you can't control that into a quantifiable monitor-able effort that determines whether Person A declares war against Person B for personal reasons. It doesn't matter in the end, that is part of the game we play.

PvP atm is fine IMO. The best way to handle these situations is to let them play themselves out and build in mechanisms for the players to handle these issues on their own.

Is it impossible to allow IG players to govern themselves?

[Glarundis]

my mind hurts already from reading all this. i haven't even read the last 2 pages

first of all, gm's are trying to come up with a solution here, so stop saying it's their fault and they can't make decisions and shit. yeah, they're not boris, but while boris had that "dictator" way of going about things, decisions weren't necessarily better. they were just that, decisions. i don't see anything wrong in the staff trying to discuss with all of us to find a better way of things. if you guys just care to continue the same state of pvp, then shame on you.
iktomi nailed it on the OP. the fact is, ppl are metagaming, using entire accounts, helping friends, friends helping friends of friends, etc, entire resources being used for what?a way to grief the other side

it's also true that we've gone from roleplaying to ruleplaying. all that it matters is that we get to follow the rules or bypass them, whatever. we can even do illegal stuff aslong as we get along with it and it ends up with us fucking over our enemies.

i haven't yet voted on all the possibilities, and i think looting restrictions and insurances are not good, really, they're just some sort of half fix that feels even more out of rp


my solution still stands. revamp the piety system, make sure ppl roleplay, don't be afraid of piety dropping someone, etc. in these kinds of things i do believe that we need a boris approach. not a dictator for the sake of being dictator but a "fuck you. you did something illegal with an assholish purpose, and YOU know it"

also, to the gm's. don't be afraid of keeping this for another week or even more time until everyone cools off and we do find a good system (or you gm's find a good system you're comfortable with)

[Haley]

You guys don't understand. The current system is shit because it creates an excessive workload for the staff, because it creates many situations that needs GM intervention and because none of us can be arsed sorting out pvp whine.

I'd rather tighten up the rules and the pvp framework and not make you guys so self-governing anymore. Like "loot anyone at any time for any reason" - and then trust the players to not think of bullshit reasons to use loopholes etc to do what they want.

Make it easy. Only religions can pvp. If they see the opposing color they spam their halt macro and then attack. That's what most of the pvpers seem to want to do anyway. They seem to not care about the RP aspect and only comment about the rules they have to obey in order to get their fix.

By doing it this way, all you need is a SS from the attacker showing halt and their opponent. This will also let the newbies to the shard the freedom of getting to play without having to worry about getting ganked on day one because they were trespassing on a field in Brit that doesn't belong to them.

Do religion magic prisons still exist? This would be a nice way to allow the religion(s) an alternate to put people in check that are being griefers.