More robbers?

[Cirius Do'Brim]

I don't think being denied is a big issue. It just means that GM's require more from you and that's something you can fix yourself.

[Arden Darkfall]

You base that on what? Yes, there are a few. But those players wouldn't be allowed robbers in the first place.

-Have you ever asked for any kind of merchant in Law map? Probably got helped by a fellow Law alt? That's metagaming.
-Have you ever created/trained a character with the sole intention of joining your allied guild? That's metagaming, and well, AG and JL were pretty much founded on that principle.
-Have you ever hunted or did anything with someone with one character, that you wouldn't have met otherwise if you hadn't met before with another character? Metagaming.

My point: Everyone metagames, to a certain extent. Ill-tempered or not, you get to know players, and prefer to keep that group, eventually exploring all 5 character options together. You might not login the Law character to check for online players, but you as a player know Law activity, and will know exactly which times are safer and which are not, influencing your preferences. And that will be metagaming.

Well that same can happen in any guilds even. It's not like that is only a religion problem? Everyone should be denied from having robbers then? And not logging in your religious char is the punishment here if you want to have a robber. Don't make a robber if you can't handle that.

Guilds are not responsible of upholding safety and chase robbers. Law/Imperial (mainly) are.

You say you didn't metagame in the DMS incident. There's no way to prove it anyway. But notice what happened, metagaming or not. This will just make more players unhappy, which leads to unhappy and stressed out staff. Hence why I prefer to keep religions and robbers completely apart. No grey area, no doubt, no issue. But I agree we could have (more) robbers.

Cirre's idea would probably take all the available time of, at best, 1 GM. If it rollercoasted into trouble, the whole staff.

[Demian]

Yes, you are right about all of that. But firstly, metagaming where it matters could be avoided by the staff deciding whos allowed to rob and whos not. And secondly, it doesn't matter Law is responsible for upholding the safety. Now we come back to the issue that having a char in a certain religion affects the RP of your alts highly, which is stupid and should never happen. Laws tasks shouldn't affect Law players' alts in any way. And since it's metagaming that we were talking about, no one whos part of any guild should be allowed to rob then, with your logic. Let's not give them a chance either, I'm sure they check maps, log their guild chars to metagame and know the times people are hunting!

Point is, metagaming can never be fully stopped. But players shouldn't be restricted on all of their characters because of the actions of one. No matter what. If any rule-breaking is detected, only then it should be dealt with. And if the staff can't handle their tasks then I suggest getting more staff members.

[Darian Darkmind]

And since it's metagaming that we were talking about, no one whos part of any guild should be allowed to rob then, with your logic. Let's not give them a chance either, I'm sure they check maps, log their guild chars to metagame and know the times people are hunting!

I'm sure they would. I know you tried to use that as an counter-argument to Arden's, but you just proved all of Arden's points to be valid. People will always metagame.

Compared to normal guilds though, the difference still is Law is still the only guild that is built and made in the sole purpose to hunt down robbers. Imperial nowadays shares the same "burden". Hunting down robbers is the only reason why Law still has the superior PvP tome. Therefore they simply cannot have robbers. However, I understand it's not fair and to make it fair, no religions should have robbers.

And what comes to GMs choosing who can rob and who can't. While the idea might sound reasonable, out of the current playerbase there's only like five players (such as bella dandy and charha & co) I could safely trust not to metagame, at least not in an extend it would affect anyone's gameplay. The funny thing is none of them are in religions, none of them have red characters and none of them even care about PvP to begin with.

[Demian]

No, those people wouldn't necessarily metagame. Just like religious people necessarily wouldn't. But that's the thing, non-religious are given a chance anyway, and it's not even considered for religious people? And that GM approval religious people would need will make sure that doesn't happen and if it does, even once, or if there's even a slight doubt of that (had you recently been on a map, recently been ig on religious char, appearing in a dungeon after some friend of yours saw people hunting there), you're out.

And that difference that Law has to other religions is true. But what does that have anything to do with Law players alts?

People are taking getting robbed too seriously, and expect anyone who wants to rob to metagame. Personally I don't care about the loot that much, I'd do it for the fun of it and have no need to metagame. Could even make robber guilds with people from other religions so no one could be blamed for only robbing certain people since you end up robbing everyone equally.

But it's not that important to me, it'd just be fun and I guess I would rob if I was given the chance. But if we won't be allowed, then neither should Tek or Nature like has been said.

[Ares]

or if there's even a slight doubt of that (had you recently been on a map, recently been ig on religious char, appearing in a dungeon after some friend of yours saw people hunting there), you're out.

You're wildly unrealistic man.

People are taking getting robbed too seriously, and expect anyone who wants to rob to metagame. Personally I don't care about the loot that much, I'd do it for the fun of it and have no need to metagame.

This is a retarded quote. I've played here for 10-11 years and I've always alway hated being robbed. It's not fun. You're fucking over my day and my game. And there are many others who don't have fun with it too.

But it's not that important to me, it'd just be fun and I guess I would rob if I was given the chance. But if we won't be allowed, then neither should Tek or Nature like has been said.

I know you want to rob, but it won't happen. You've been given an alternative where it'd be possible, but you rejected it out of fear of being nerfed or not being OP or whatever. Those are the terms though.

[Demian]

or if there's even a slight doubt of that (had you recently been on a map, recently been ig on religious char, appearing in a dungeon after some friend of yours saw people hunting there), you're out.

You're wildly unrealistic man.

Why?

People are taking getting robbed too seriously, and expect anyone who wants to rob to metagame. Personally I don't care about the loot that much, I'd do it for the fun of it and have no need to metagame.

This is a retarded quote. I've played here for 10-11 years and I've always alway hated being robbed. It's not fun. You're fucking over my day and my game. And there are many others who don't have fun with it too.

Well who says it's fun. Though not everyone thinks like you. But it's a part of the game that the staff is effectively blocking with your carebear approach.

But it's not that important to me, it'd just be fun and I guess I would rob if I was given the chance. But if we won't be allowed, then neither should Tek or Nature like has been said.

I know you want to rob, but it won't happen. You've been given an alternative where it'd be possible, but you rejected it out of fear of being nerfed or not being OP or whatever. Those are the terms though.

No, we weren't given an alternative, it was your idea that the boss man Iktomi blocked, remember? And what does Law have anything to do with our alts in the first place? Any religions or guilds can metagame all the same as Law can.

[Mox]

Again this one sided discussion?

Allow me to paraphrase myself:
No robber alts available for law members under the current tome/religion setup.

Period.

Oh, and if you try to be a smartass again by calling me ignorant, or any form of other slander/smartassery...........

Just don't, capiche?

[Bella Pious]

I never understand why people want to rob others in the first place.

Instead of like what Cirius suggested, to have a .robber status implemented and only staff can allow certain players to be robber, can we have something opposite like .protected?
People must apply for the .protected status and get GMs approval to be "protected" and only those who have no criminal record and no religious characters can apply? Leave us who really share no interest in PvP out of this whole argument. Of course the idea has flaw in it and people can still "metagame" and will need monitoring but I think we have way less population of such spices than Religious/Criminal accounts, so it would mean less work for the staff. When the staff no longer believes a certain player qualified for the status, they can always take the status away.
This way, the choice becomes very simple : either you are part of the PvP or not. Let those who want to kill/rob enemy or each other can feel free to do so. No need to restrict areas where no robbers is allowed. And to those who have no criminal characters and non-religious characters but for some reason are not deed qualified to be protected, life would still be the same : be careful, don't go out with what you cannot afford to lose.

[Ivan]

Just to point out to everyone who thinks like bella.

At first when I was a robber, I thought "cool I get to play outlaw and get some phat loot". But in reality it wasnt that, 90% of the loot I got was vampire bones and useless stuff. Finding proper players hunting was rare and even if you found them they had higher chance of getting away.

So it was realy rarely that I even saw proper hunting gear loot as a robber. But I enjoyed being robber and running around felucca and scaring people, so it wasnt the loot to begin with which I was looking forward.

Sadly that cannot be combined with the ability of being able to join the PVP. For reasons I've stated many times before.

Nowdays I see robbers as part of the shard that should always be there to bring the certain uncertaintity and risk for the carefree PVM players.