Oblivion: The 5th Religion

[Darian Darkmind]

Surprising but seems even you are forgetting about a think called RP, I was a new priest freshly joined to the religion just a few days before this rebellion, however even though I only had 10-20 piety at the time I still ran around plaguing and completing tasks that I was set to prove my self. Also they had you on their side a 50 piety, as well as numbers, I understand avoiding pvp I guess but you should have still done more than plague the odd sparrow or pop out your front door to plague yew. The person who brought them into the religion only coming online to grant piety?
It just seems to me that your plan to take over the religion merely involved abusing the game mechanics set in place and you were not prepared to actually do any work for it.

I feel like repeating myself.

You're right, they had me and together we could have done stuff. Granted. However, I told them since day one that I will not be there to help them other than granting them piety. Still they wanted this. I was very clear from the beginning I will not be fighting against the old Tekstone nor help them in any other way except granting piety and some tomes. It's not I who had to proof myself, it was them and the moment they had 30 piety I expected them to do so. It seems like you all expected them to do stuff since day one which is all good and understandable and I too had enjoyed seeing it - but I tried to be realistic and understood they need at least 30 piety to do anything effectively. Sadly we all know with 10 piety killing them had been so easy it had made us look even worse than the 45 days of inactivity. Again, I agree 45 days of inactivity did make this look retarded and stupid and I hated it, but I also know 45 days of activity had been pure massacre which in turn had made us look even worse and completely unworthy. Killing a 10 piety priest is just that easy and their blesses fade the moment they hit an enemy. Again, I understand you and your concerns, I just wish you'd all look at the realities of the matter.

You can say we were abusing game-mechanism. I'd go and say the game-mechanism doesn't work. If we had 20+ people who wanted to join Tekstone, but due to Tekstone being a small inbred group of people who let their personal OOC feelings and fear of losing the control of the religion go in the way of that, the problem is in the game-mechanisms. Religions are not meant as personal guilds.

We did the only thing there was to be done, because the staff said they will not intervene and help us otherwise. We did what was possible script-wise and there was exactly one way to do it. You can blame it on us all you want, but the true fault lies within the scripts for not allowing any alternative and better way. Had there been a script where switching religion only gives you a penalty of 10 piety, or just a temporary penalty instead of dropping you from 40-50 all the way to 10, then you had seen activity since day one. Sadly, again, we are tied to the scripts and we acted by what was possible.

[Siren]

You can say we were abusing game-mechanism. I'd go and say the game-mechanism doesn't work. If we had 20+ people who wanted to join Tekstone, but due to Tekstone being a small inbred group of people who let their personal OOC feelings and fear of losing the control of the religion go in the way of that, the problem is in the game-mechanisms. Religions are not meant as personal guilds.
You can blame it on us all you want, but the true fault lies within the scripts for not allowing any alternative and better way. Had there been a script where switching religion only gives you a penalty of 10 piety, or just a temporary penalty instead of dropping you from 40-50 all the way to 10, then you had seen activity since day one. Sadly, again, we are tied to the scripts and we acted by what was possible.

Did not mean to blame it on you, as I I said I understood why they did not pvp, just saying as a fellow low piety priest I showed more activity in terms of plaguing and roleplaying in-game outside my house alone. Also when I joined I knew nobody in Tekstone well.
By the way I thought up a small idea which would maybe help stop religions from being held by small groups of players who are friends, which you see as a problem with the current Tek and I also see as becoming a problem with this new religion, tell me what you think, perhaps we can think of something which can help stop the inbreeding .
Posted on the idea forums by the way as that is a separate matter from what is meant to be being discussed here.

[dwight]

Also Dwight might want to consider the numbers, calling it cowardly to flee after dying to 3 times your own numbers

As coward as fighting with 10 piety

[Dante]

Also Dwight might want to consider the numbers, calling it cowardly to flee after dying to 3 times your own numbers

As coward as fighting with 10 piety

Well done Ved, the first to be banned by myself for 7 days for encouraging flaming.

I'm a little disappointed no one has read my post seemingly.

[Shednil]

First I do just have to say that you staff that have been here lately for many but for the majority of the time I been playing here have just done a great job, even more so lately. Small events, quests and just changes around the world as people play have made it so much more alive. Not to mention the major system, I am still excited to see what more will be added to that.

While I do have great trust in what you do after seeing you really trying to change everything for the better I am just surprised to see you make this decision, I was actually thinking it was a late april fools when I first saw it.

What has forced you to think this was the best solution is still beyond me. Just make a decision about tekstone, a big fighting event or perhaps a siege of the tekstone city to determine its new rulers all seem like better ways to go then a sudden new religion hastily thrown together because of game mechanics.
I am sure you can see how wrong it is as well even if you feel guilty and want to redeem yourself this is not a good solution.

The whole reason nothing RP related has been created yet is this whole situation was a mess, we had two main parties who based on either decision, one was going to end up quitting. With a dwindling player base as it is, this was not an option.

While it might been the best solution to keep new and old tekstone happy with what have happened it is hardly the best for the shard all together and to please a group of players to prevent them to from quitting by just adding a new religion that is not needed while we are clearly struggling to balance and fix the four religions we have. What example are you setting for new players coming by and see that?
If anything I believe this will result in a dwindling player base even if not right away.

I know I feel it discouraging by it even after all the good improvements you have done.

I was hoping there would be excitement for the new content, or at-least an increase in the player-base to counter these new additions.

You are right, it should and in most cases it would as well.
I remember I have seen stories here in the past that would suiting to lead into a new religion, I do understand why the staff did not do it back then, for the same reason you should not do it today but even then I would have been excited to see it.
Here it has no story behind it. It is made of people who either follow Gaea or Dennac and now are to worship a whole new god for a reason you are going to make up afterwards? Everyone can see that it doesnt make any sense and to me it just seem like you dont really care that much about roleplay which was the main reason I started to play here.

I do normally dont want to give you any bad feedback like this since I believe you want the best for the shard and do all this just for free but this decision is just awful

[Dante]

Excellent feedback Shednil, posts like this still give me hope.

When my headache ceases, I'll try to provide some more clarifications.

[Palma]

26 active players did not want to play Nature anymore.
the same players do not want to join Law because there's no one to challenge the current Law.
Cannot join tekstone because a group of 4 players controls it and doesn't let them.
Cannot join Imperial because they won't let them either.

Hence the need of a 5th religion.

You cannot blame this group for the lack of players in your religions. With this and the above said, not having a 5th religion wouldn't help your case. Wouldn't give any more activity to the existing 4 religions the way things are.

You can say what you want, but both you all and us, know that, once the active 26 we are, who you all know as mongers and so on, once we're ready and out there, you will all log on. You will all increase your numbers just so you can fight us.

And like it or not, when you do, the shard will of won activity thanks to GM's decision. Because it's clear that, if it's up to the players, you rather just continue the same paths afraid of change, paths that are leading us to inactivity. You would have us all join Law because we can't do anything else, and then not play because if right now you say you can't fight Law 3 times your numbers, you definately wouldn't 10 times your numbers. The fact that you don't accept help from others who want to join you because you rather hate them OOC, is not our fault, let alone the Staff's.

The way I see it, the staff is building something. Just the fact that they managed to create an active post of 6 pages so quick, and people all commenting around to one another. That's already activity win.

Everything new, everyone always has complaints to do. These 26 players weren't going to join any of the existing 4 religions, a 5th was given to them. Makes total sense to me. You can continue to figure out how to raise your own numbers the same way you would if this 5th wasn't created, you wouldn't have accepted us afraid of loosing your precious power. Because nothing changed to you. If anything, you were saved from us all joining Law and activity drop to zero because no one out there to challenge such a big Law.

Unless you're willing to provide a solution to where these 26 players who want to play with one another should go, I don't see how you can be against this 5th. I myself am all ears to your suggestions.

[Siren]

Unless you're willing to provide a solution to where these 26 players who want to play with one another should go, I don't see how you can be against this 5th. I myself am all ears to your suggestions.

I have actually been suggesting some solutions, you are welcome to read them and suggest your own.
I was also wondering what was so wrong about playing together in nature?

Now I have no problem with a new religion and if it works out how you say it will sure great, its just I am not so optimistic that this will all work out and many people share those feelings.
I am also curious as to if for example "old Tek" was to apply to join oblivion you would allow them to, reflecting your application to join Tekstone.

This monopoly certain players/groups of players can hold on religions is something I think should be discussed in more depth which is why I made the suggestion to take the Incom/excom option out of the hands of players.

[Palma]

To answer Siren:

All of us like pvp and pvp cannot be done in Nature. We've spent years already at it and it's roleplay, and its completely saturated. We need a new adventure, a new fresh start. Something entirely different and challenging. That's why we choose tekstone, because it was weak and we could go for it. Sounded like a lot of fun to play the bad guys for now.

Anyone can apply to oblivion, we will choose based on the player if he fits our group or not. We just value peace of mind, that's it. Each player whatever personality will be given time to see if he adjusts or not, if he causes problems and argues with each other in a group that 100% never argues, he's out. That simple. We don't care about who he is or who he's friends with. You know what I say it's true, I've let many different people into Nature and they all learned to have fun with us.

I'm all foward about the indoc/excom out of players hands if it comes to that. That's the whole reason why we had no options in the first place. But I see that hard to happen. Members fighting one another, some without forum access to their religion forum, people not gaining piety, no tome makings, etc.

[Siren]

we will choose based on the player if he fits our group or not.

This is my point as well as your complaint about Tekstone if players can not fit in with the "group" then they get pushed out in the current system, although grouping is going to happen its part of human nature to form tight groups after all. The only difference I see between their group and yours is in the size?

But this is a difficult problem to solve, there is most likely no true way to stop religions being controlled by a group to a degree, as although I see my idea a partial fix there will still be the problem of creating a tome,symbol etc and without help from others in the religion there will only be so far you can get as you mentioned.

I see membership+piety in a religion as something that should be determined on your contribution to whichever god/godess. Of course something like that would require far more work than anyone has time for except for, maybe crafter classes for imperial who could just have said crafter, craft something as a donation to the temple.

I guess removing as many of the rites that require groups tomes as possible is one of the only ways to fight the problems i.e. tome making but yes as with my previous point it is too much work for huge reworks currently.