First off, it needs to be said and I don't think anyone has, Pangaea in it's current for is not running on the latest POL core, this means that anything in pol097's core that has been fixed or improved upon, we do not have access to. What these may be, I do not know as I haven't compared the two in terms of their notes.
As for "What does RunUO bring to the table?", here are just a few things it offers:
* High Seas client - This is huge, with every client update comes bug fixes and new content.
* EVERYTHING is, in it's base form, implemented to emulate OSI, unlike POL, when you download a copy of Runuo distro, you are downloading a world that is already populated, fully functional and finally does not have some of the shortcomings of POL such as jerky boats.
* As everything is modeled on OSI, our crafting system would be up-to-date with the latest gumps.
* Combat oriented ability book which offers players though limited, special moves dependent on the weapon you current have equipped.
* I have skimmed some of the available pkgs people have released to supplement shards, one in particular is very exciting, under the name of UltimaLive, it offers staff the ability to create upwards of 200 new maps as well as push live map updates to us players. This means we could have a dynamic world that is rocked by a catastrophic event such as the "Goddess of the Sea swallowing up Jhelom cause she got tired of all the degradation she saw going on". There are many many other pkg's that offer other very different things from new items such as new container types such as safes to a project where when you chop a tree and it runs out of resources it's graphic changes and the tree is seen to be chopped down and will grow back first as a saplings then back to fully grown trees. I mean there is a lot that can be done with RunUO.
Now, this is not all chestnuts and tea, there are three major pkgs that would need a port over and also some serious evaluations as to what RunUO comes with and if any of it should be disabled to keep integrity of RP (Samurai Empire comes to mind really for this one ). Those three pkg's being druid, class system and religion system. The necromancy pkg is already in place as it uses the OSI standard which means necros get their own spell tiles, it also offers the ability for knights to be religion characters but have their own skill, chivalry and thus have their very own tome to make them seem truly their own holy warriors on the battlefield.
Finally, what RunUO brings to the table compared to POL is that RunUO uses the C# programming language as it runs on .Net and as such, there is a probable wider variety of people who know this language compared to POL's escript.
Now I am not saying neither is better, they both have their advantages, with RunUO sure, you are handed a runable shard modeled directly on OSI and everything works as it does on OSI where as POL you are handed a shard that is nearly fully functional in terms of the basics of all the skills and what not but not really, the benefit of this being of course is that you are forced into scripting stuff you otherwise would lazily let be on say a RunUO shard so you can tweak things the way you want them. Look at it like the difference between an Android phone and an IPhone, the IPhone being RunUO, you don't have to fiddle with it, it works as you want it to (according to Jobs) where as the Android while stable can be finicky at times but allows those of us (like myself) who want to fiddle around with stuff you otherwise would leave alone on the IPhone because it just works, you can.
It is all in perspective and the unfortunate thing no matter which way you go on this topic you will always have those who reject it as a horrible move cause they harp back to the old days when it was like this or that. Personally, hard work though it maybe and aside from all the upshots I pointed out here, the RunUO option is the way to go, the RunUO forums unlike the pol forums are always alive with activity so a scripter does not always feel he is the lone captain on the bridge of a trapped ship in icy seas and just offers more then what we have out of the box.
My only advice to the staff if they take this momentous step is:
Take small steps, do not worry about getting every piece of Pangaea's current feature set ported over before you launch it, focus on the main one, the class system, then move to other ones like the religion system then to other pkgs. Use what RunUO already has to your strength.
- I need to point out I do not know C# as two members of the staff have already asked me.
- Also, if you were to take this momentous step, what would happen with the old Pangaea scripts, might I suggest instead of zipping them up and storing somewhere, you let Pangaea live on by releasing them on the POL forums so that future POL users have an exceptional script base they can draw on.
Important: The Future of Pangaea
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Re: Important: The Future of Pangaea
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Re: Important: The Future of Pangaea
My main fears with RunUO would be:Cyrus Tegyr wrote:It is all in perspective and the unfortunate thing no matter which way you go on this topic you will always have those who reject it as a horrible move cause they harp back to the old days when it was like this or that. Personally, hard work though it maybe and aside from all the upshots I pointed out here, the RunUO option is the way to go, the RunUO forums unlike the pol forums are always alive with activity so a scripter does not always feel he is the lone captain on the bridge of a trapped ship in icy seas and just offers more then what we have out of the box.
1) the waiting time for it to open, develop features, adjust the balance, fix bugs. It's a very long and hard journey for those new scripters.
2) complete wipe. Item wipes I don't really bother, but it's the characters that have always made me return. Without them I'd probably just play something else.
I agree. The current issues were created because it was too big of a bite to chew. There'll always be people bored that stop playing, summer has always taken a toll, and people then come back when they miss it. The first thing on queue should be fix those issues.Cyrus Tegyr wrote: My only advice to the staff if they take this momentous step is:
Take small steps, do not worry about getting every piece of Pangaea's current feature set ported over before you launch it, focus on the main one, the class system, then move to other ones like the religion system then to other pkgs. Use what RunUO already has to your strength.
- Maximilian Lhoth
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Re: Important: The Future of Pangaea
Exactly! Anarchangaea (Shard owner: me) shall be opened some day, I hope.Cyrus Tegyr wrote:- Also, if you were to take this momentous step, what would happen with the old Pangaea scripts, might I suggest instead of zipping them up and storing somewhere, you let Pangaea live on by releasing them on the POL forums so that future POL users have an exceptional script base they can draw on.
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Re: Important: The Future of Pangaea
1.) Yes it would be a journey but if everything was done in baby steps, class system the first on the agenda before any talk of anything else if the staff so chose to keep a class system model for Pangaea or maybe adopt another system.Arden Darkfall wrote:My main fears with RunUO would be:
1) the waiting time for it to open, develop features, adjust the balance, fix bugs. It's a very long and hard journey for those new scripters.
2) complete wipe. Item wipes I don't really bother, but it's the characters that have always made me return. Without them I'd probably just play something else.
2.) This could be addressed and honestly with all the niceties that RunUO has I would be fine if they allowed 1 character port from our current accounts to the new Pangaea.
ultimately yes it would mean there would be down time for Pangaea, but I think the end result would be worth it. Access to the latest client which might fix some lag issues and other client side problems such as unexpected crashes and of course the newness of some of the things such as battle ready boats and what not.
The black market was a way of getting around government controls. It was a way of enabling the free market to work. It was a way of opening up, enabling people. - Milton Friedman
Re: Important: The Future of Pangaea
I guess if things were taken in baby steps as you mentioned RunUO may not be so bad as it could be playable once the world is populated and the class system in place, once this is done you can let the players in and let us bug test it for you and help with balancing or whatever.
There is not a need to have all the features we currently have implemented on day 1 and new features could be implemented one a time, of course we need people working on the scripting to do this, do you have the people?
Also would it be possible to keep the current pang going while this is being worked on if you receive enough donation for the server? I know that most people do not want to see the end of pang and some are worried about the RunUO option, as if you take down the server while you are working on the RunUO version that interest will be lost and that will be the end of it.
I'm more than happy to say go with the RunUO option and I think taking a group from the players to help develop it in its early stages would speed development as was mentioned and the more people involved the more feedback you can get on the choices you make during developlment, hell I would say start developing it now if that is the way you are going, no need to wait for the six months to end.
There is not a need to have all the features we currently have implemented on day 1 and new features could be implemented one a time, of course we need people working on the scripting to do this, do you have the people?
Also would it be possible to keep the current pang going while this is being worked on if you receive enough donation for the server? I know that most people do not want to see the end of pang and some are worried about the RunUO option, as if you take down the server while you are working on the RunUO version that interest will be lost and that will be the end of it.
I'm more than happy to say go with the RunUO option and I think taking a group from the players to help develop it in its early stages would speed development as was mentioned and the more people involved the more feedback you can get on the choices you make during developlment, hell I would say start developing it now if that is the way you are going, no need to wait for the six months to end.
Re: Important: The Future of Pangaea
Was hoping to prep a first response to this thread... but Dannnnnnnnnte! jumped the gun a bit.
Anyway, a whack of clarifications.
1.) This poll has nothing to do with player counts, it is purely initiated by Ares' resignation and a some underlying issues that many of us GMs have been reflecting on. Primarily that there are a number of core issues that need resolving or core improvements that we'd like to see made that are impossible either due to a.) POL restrictions or b.) "Things that can never be changed". As you can imagine, having either of these things is incredibly demotivating. We can make improvements here and there, but why bother if they'll result in an enormous mountain of whining and if there are bigger issues that can never be fixed. How much effort do you put in fixing a car that's can never be fully repaired?
(Also, this is what has resulted in trying to add things, but then being unable to fully see them through... which sucks, and we apologise)
2.) Pangaea 2 failed because they were going for an entirely custom world. Custom map, custom spells, custom items, custom monsters, etc. There is no way we have sufficient motivation to do that, so that's off the table.
3.) If we did go with RunUO, I imagine we could keep PangaeaPOL running while worked on RunUO
4.) If we did go with RunUO, we'd need to entirely repopulate the world, and would definitely be looking to add quite a few temporary staff to assist with that process, and potentially a few more staff to do semi-coder things such as tweaking items/monsters/etc.
5.) If we did go with shutting down the server, I don't see any reason why we wouldn't get it into a stable state and then let it run for the remaining time on our lease. (Obviously, if other people wanted to take over, that could be an option as well).
6.) If we went with RunUO, we'd definitely be looking at an item wipe. I like the possibility of one character transfer, or possible transferring skill points... or something. Not entirely sure yet, but at least some sort of transfer seems fair.
Anyway, a whack of clarifications.
1.) This poll has nothing to do with player counts, it is purely initiated by Ares' resignation and a some underlying issues that many of us GMs have been reflecting on. Primarily that there are a number of core issues that need resolving or core improvements that we'd like to see made that are impossible either due to a.) POL restrictions or b.) "Things that can never be changed". As you can imagine, having either of these things is incredibly demotivating. We can make improvements here and there, but why bother if they'll result in an enormous mountain of whining and if there are bigger issues that can never be fixed. How much effort do you put in fixing a car that's can never be fully repaired?
(Also, this is what has resulted in trying to add things, but then being unable to fully see them through... which sucks, and we apologise)
2.) Pangaea 2 failed because they were going for an entirely custom world. Custom map, custom spells, custom items, custom monsters, etc. There is no way we have sufficient motivation to do that, so that's off the table.
3.) If we did go with RunUO, I imagine we could keep PangaeaPOL running while worked on RunUO
4.) If we did go with RunUO, we'd need to entirely repopulate the world, and would definitely be looking to add quite a few temporary staff to assist with that process, and potentially a few more staff to do semi-coder things such as tweaking items/monsters/etc.
5.) If we did go with shutting down the server, I don't see any reason why we wouldn't get it into a stable state and then let it run for the remaining time on our lease. (Obviously, if other people wanted to take over, that could be an option as well).
6.) If we went with RunUO, we'd definitely be looking at an item wipe. I like the possibility of one character transfer, or possible transferring skill points... or something. Not entirely sure yet, but at least some sort of transfer seems fair.
- Bella Pious
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Re: Important: The Future of Pangaea
Thank you, Iktomi.
Re: Important: The Future of Pangaea
Yes thank you Iktomi for clarifying things, I shall now proceed to send a few whines to Dante for worrying me so much, as I know he loves to receive them
but yes I hope you can keep us up to date on what is happening, and any help you need in whatever form.
but yes I hope you can keep us up to date on what is happening, and any help you need in whatever form.
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Re: Important: The Future of Pangaea
Hi guys. Haven't been here in a while.
Regarding this discussion: POL is a seriously outdated technology. Think of it as the first ever Justin Timberlake fan site:
It looks crap, doesn't it. Not even Boris gets wet (read: soggy) from this.
RunUO on the other hand, is like the current Justin Timberlake website, which leaves Boris oozing:
Amazing.
What Pangaea is currently trying to do is build the new JT website with the technology behind the old JT website. Pangaea is built in such a way that, to implement all the new features, a lot of the old scripting had to be changed. That's the way POL rolls. Simply "nuking" the new features (and their respective bugs) is almost as much hard work, if not more, than implementing them. It's not the scripter's fault, it's just the way the POL technology works.
RunUO on the other hand is implemented in .NET, which is pretty much what's behind most desktop applications on your Windows operating systems (pfft, Windows n00bs). RunUO servers are very OSI style because it's default settings are made to mostly simulate OSI. It is however programmable to act very opa pangnam style.
Is it justifiable though? IMHO no. You could have the most amazing UO shard ever (you do), but it's still UO. Player base isn't going to increase by much. Those "700+" you see on Top200? Lies, all lies.
Would I play on a RunUO Pangaea? Hell yeah. Probably. For a while. Probably not long enough to justify the effort though.
Disclaimer: no Borises were harmed during the process of writing this post.
Regarding this discussion: POL is a seriously outdated technology. Think of it as the first ever Justin Timberlake fan site:
It looks crap, doesn't it. Not even Boris gets wet (read: soggy) from this.
RunUO on the other hand, is like the current Justin Timberlake website, which leaves Boris oozing:
Amazing.
What Pangaea is currently trying to do is build the new JT website with the technology behind the old JT website. Pangaea is built in such a way that, to implement all the new features, a lot of the old scripting had to be changed. That's the way POL rolls. Simply "nuking" the new features (and their respective bugs) is almost as much hard work, if not more, than implementing them. It's not the scripter's fault, it's just the way the POL technology works.
RunUO on the other hand is implemented in .NET, which is pretty much what's behind most desktop applications on your Windows operating systems (pfft, Windows n00bs). RunUO servers are very OSI style because it's default settings are made to mostly simulate OSI. It is however programmable to act very opa pangnam style.
Is it justifiable though? IMHO no. You could have the most amazing UO shard ever (you do), but it's still UO. Player base isn't going to increase by much. Those "700+" you see on Top200? Lies, all lies.
Would I play on a RunUO Pangaea? Hell yeah. Probably. For a while. Probably not long enough to justify the effort though.
Disclaimer: no Borises were harmed during the process of writing this post.
Re: Important: The Future of Pangaea
I have no idea how hard it is to transfer the shard into RunUO from our POL but before you do that, you should consider if the effort is going to give any gain. I understand that we are running on some ancient core and shit, but afaik, it works for us, ordinary people. If you are going to open the new platform, that means everything will be new? As in training style, materials, w/e shit more?
I am quite sure that many will leave if they have to leave their trained characters and shit behind, including me, most likely. I don't have the time to recreate everything I have managed to achieve so far on pang and the "transfer one char" will deffo not be the candy for me to continue there.
What we have to think of, anything we going to do, the stability is the main key. People most likely don't want to continue playing at the moment if they can know for sure that they are going to lose everything in 6 months anyway. Perhaps we could get some kind of guarantee what will happen if we are going to continue on the new core. Meaning, will we remain with our chars? All new? Some new? Can we transfer any items? No items? One item? Full whipe? Item whipe? Skill whipe?
Don't wanna sound whiny here but I'm really not the kind of person whos style of living is "fuck it, lets see what future brings" in certain things.
I am quite sure that many will leave if they have to leave their trained characters and shit behind, including me, most likely. I don't have the time to recreate everything I have managed to achieve so far on pang and the "transfer one char" will deffo not be the candy for me to continue there.
What we have to think of, anything we going to do, the stability is the main key. People most likely don't want to continue playing at the moment if they can know for sure that they are going to lose everything in 6 months anyway. Perhaps we could get some kind of guarantee what will happen if we are going to continue on the new core. Meaning, will we remain with our chars? All new? Some new? Can we transfer any items? No items? One item? Full whipe? Item whipe? Skill whipe?
Don't wanna sound whiny here but I'm really not the kind of person whos style of living is "fuck it, lets see what future brings" in certain things.
Philip Azevedo:
na dude, fu*k uni... that shit wont lead you anywhere
pang on the otherhand....
na dude, fu*k uni... that shit wont lead you anywhere
pang on the otherhand....