Ares wrote: ...I don't have any plans about anything, but I think it could be interesting to start a new RunUO project. Not Pangaea 2.0 – But a new shard based on the spirit of Pangaea (like Pangaea was based on JE).
I think the key to succeeding with something like that would be to say: we don't port Pangaea, we start a new shard from the ground up and start with what's important. The class system, the guild/religion system, the skills etc.
And we launch right away...
Ares wrote: We could even make it open source. That means that everyone contributes as much or as little as they want.
Ares is right. Pangaea isn't about the coding or the realm its on, it about the interaction.
How about Boris and the other staffs decide between yourselves what's the best course of action before talking to us players here?
I don't imagine that having some staff members pulling to one side, Boris to the other, will end up having good results. It would most likely end up players arguing with one another what to do or vote and so on, and more separation.
If you can't reach a consence, don't bring it up to us players. Can't have a good result.
It's time for Boris to return and choose his new staff(keep a couple). I respect the current staff, this shit isn't easy. It wears on you to even log on listening to the nonsense daily, I appreciate all your work and dedication.
As for the newish direction, I can't be asked to macro chars again. Item wipe however is reasonable, or choosing two characters to keep. Restarting on this old game would be too much.
I'm fine with a RunUO version of Pang being worked on in the mean time, I just don't see it happening. All I know is, Pang isn't dying, bitches!
All I know is, a 5th religion? Yeah, no. Not gonna happen.
Palma wrote:How about Boris and the other staffs decide between yourselves what's the best course of action before talking to us players here?
I don't imagine that having some staff members pulling to one side, Boris to the other, will end up having good results. It would most likely end up players arguing with one another what to do or vote and so on, and more separation.
If you can't reach a consence, don't bring it up to us players. Can't have a good result.
Neither Boris nor I are staffmembers. we're just each giving our personal opinions, like you guys.
What happens is up to the current staff.
the big post by ares was quite enlightening, and i'm glad that he did it
i understand the position of the ppl who don't want to change, or don't let us change, but i almost fully agree with ares. starting that new shard would be great.
simply because we could have something like pangaea, but with some differences that most of us feel it's necessary.
i don't mind pangaea, sure it has its flaws but hey, it's pangaea.
and i respect (even though i disagree) the fact that neon/irming want to keep the shard unchanged (to some limit).
what i don't understand is, why be some strict about it if it's a shard and sooner or later, if we don't change, the shard will be more or less dead because no one is playing? what's repsak/nosferatu/whoever say on this?if they can be contacted, that is. like i said, i still respect the decision, but i don't understand why we should be so strict about a game that is so old. if it's about keeping pangaea as the original thing, then why not have a backup of how it was so that it will never be lost, but we can continue on a "different" pangaea?
Palma wrote:How about Boris and the other staffs decide between yourselves what's the best course of action before talking to us players here?
I don't imagine that having some staff members pulling to one side, Boris to the other, will end up having good results. It would most likely end up players arguing with one another what to do or vote and so on, and more separation.
If you can't reach a consence, don't bring it up to us players. Can't have a good result.
Neither Boris nor I are staffmembers. we're just each giving our personal opinions, like you guys.
What happens is up to the current staff.
True dat. We don't expect anyone to necessarily get behind the RunUO option yet, in fact we're not entirely sure what it's going to look like. Over the next few days, we'll be looking at it in more detail and can then present a more realistic view of what it will look like (things lost, things added, timelines, etc.), then we can all work to decide how we'd like to proceed.
Well what has been said about abandoning the POL core is true, much of the pang experience has to do with how POL works. It wouldn't be feasible to recreate the same experience with RunUO, so a switch will necessary imply a change in how pang feels. So perhaps POL99 could help with some of the issues (please note that I have not seen the changelogs from 96 all the way through 99), even though, like Ares said, the upgrade process might not be easy it might very well be the most balanced solution between and updated core and keeping the pang feel.
I do not feel that shutting down the shard is an option really, I am fairly certain we can come up with a solution to keep it running with the current staff or with someone else managing it.
Ares's idea of an open source shard is very very interesting at least in theory! I'm not sure how it would turn up when those who can code knew how the game mechanics work (even with all the POL randomness). Nevertheless it is still quite an interesting concept and Ares is certainly right about how much easier would be for the staff to have bugs fixed if the playerbase contributes.
Ares wrote:I think the key to succeeding with something like that would be to say: we don't port Pangaea, we start a new shard from the ground up and start with what's important. The class system, the guild/religion system, the skills etc.
And we launch right away.
We could even make it open source. That means that everyone contributes as much or as little as they want. To the code, to the lore, the rules etc. All you need to do is to change a file and submit a pull request, which will be reviewed by a staffmember and either accepted or rejected with the push of a button.
Found a bug on the townstone, know what causes it and know a little about scripting? Fix it and submit a pull request. Found a flaw in the lore? Rewrite it and submit it.
It would work sort of like the Wiki, but curated.
A flexible open-spirited, technologically modern shard. Which doesn't cling to an unchangeable core and philosophy.
Been waiting a while to post my thoughts on this topic. Ares direction is the only one that really makes sense. Not sure I understand the reasoning for waiting to push ahead in all honesty. Regardless of the excellent points you've made, that conservative mindset will not change. People like what is common and what has been around and thus, will stick with it regardless.
Anyways, looking forward to seeing what staff comes up with.
Well I stand corrected for some reason not sure why I thought Pangaea was on POL 097...
I agree with pretty much everything Ares said, the problem is this fear of change, nothing should be off the table in terms of changing it and unfortunately whether it be players or staff, there is this want to keep the Repsakian Pangaea alive and that any change will be the hammer driving a nail into the coffin of continuity and this is just not the case. When you are talking of a game that has been around for 17 years and Pangaea what, 10 of those years, you need change, other more popular games have had complete face lifts in terms of UI and various other systems in less time then 10 years running.
If you look back at it, the only major change to a system pivotal to Pangaea was the Heightened ability which in my view was the worst idea ever, it added an unneeded gap between new players and old players and forced those who wanted to build characters to be on the same level to spend even more time macroing instead of just unlocking some ability or something once you were fully maxed. This is hardly even a major change, all of the class problems that were there before were still there untouched as they would remain for years to come.
Before an item wipe is seriously considered, I'd like to see measures in place that prevent the economy from spiraling out of control like everyone says it has currently, perhaps a max cap on gold coin supply and a few other measures, I do not think it wise every so often we are "forced" to do item wipes because no measures have even been put in place to prevent such instances. But this is for another thread on another forum at a different time, not to be discussed further here.
Reviewing some of the responses, mainly Ares', has answered some questions in terms of a better understanding why some staff leave, the opposition to changing stagnant pkgs and various other ruminations I have had over the last couple years.
Finally, not sure if anyone has said it, thanks Ares, though I am sure I was a proper pain in the ass, you managed to put up with more shit from players than you should have had to and based on some of the posts I have read in the time you had been staff, you had much more patience than I would, I would have thrown the obligatory ban sentence out, decapitating their characters and placing the heads of my enemies on pikes and hanging them from the castle wall.
The black market was a way of getting around government controls. It was a way of enabling the free market to work. It was a way of opening up, enabling people. - Milton Friedman
