Is Pangaea heading in a positive direction?

[Glarundis]

I can't agree with this. If anything, things are already a little too easy on pang and once you get your giant bone set for ~400k, which is cheap as hell, and the most essential clothes, you have nothing more to work towards except grind for PvP gear without much worry. I simply don't see where the fun would be in a game where reaching the "top" level is fast and everything is easy to obtain, even more so than it already is. I think there is a reason we aren't all playing on those shards where you just pick up the best items from a table for free and go do your thing. Reaching the top fast and having nothing more to do is the opposite of addictive. Even if you face a loss it doesn't matter because the risk-reward aspect of the game is completely demolished, it gets boring quickly and is the same reason why I can't find enjoyment from games like WoW for long and I'd imagine I'm not alone on pang with that opinion.

It seems we have two ways of thinking then

I understand your point, and I agree when you say things would become too easy. I don't want things to become too easy without any counterparts. I want things to be not so hard to get, because they're also easy to lose. Getting a giant bone set for 400k is too easy in your eyes, but what if you could actually lose the set every now and then? It suddenly doesn't become so easy. When there's nothing more to achieve, I agree that it gets boring. But here there is something to achieve, which is winning vs the opposite team. If that's what we're talking about, then this is all about pvp and the people that reach that kind of end game should focus at that, and let's face it, they already do. There's nothing else for them except for pvp and pvm as a means to gear to pvp with.

If getting to the top is easy and people get bored, then why do people still play fps after years and years when it's all the same and you don't really need weeks of playing to be able to have a certain weapon and use it in combat? Actually you only need a few minutes and a few rounds won so you can get money for that. And you never lose your skills except if you stop playing because the skills are not in your character, but in yourself. In pangaea it's a bit different because a part of the skills are built in the game and you can't really lose them even if you aren't playing for a long time.

But now this got me thinking. In terms of pvp, the model is a bit different, but it's the same as with all those games. Winning vs the opposite team. Then why aren't ppl still pvp'ing here? Why isn't it as fun as those other games? Maybe the game is just too old and there's nothing wrong with it, it's just old.. Although I still play Soldat, and there are hundreds of players who still do..

[Glarundis]

Imagine if you bought/downloaded the game and instead of jumping into the fun part, the devs ask you to do a boring task which takes like 6 months and only THEN you have the chance to get to the fun part. I know RPG's are ment to start slow and with humble begginings but this is WAY too slow...

It is slow, yeah. The problem is, like I said on my previous post, there isn't a real way to define all of your skills as a player other than your items/char's skills. Yes, some players have learned tactics and it takes time to practice them, but you still need the items and the character's skills. In those other games I was talking about, your "character's" skills are your own skills. In this game, that just doesn't work, and to make matters worse, the game doesn't encourage active playing as it should. I mentioned many years ago that I would still like piety to go up to 80, but only if it was easier to lose it, and if you just stop playing for a while after reaching 50p, you would certainly lose it. The game is not dynamic in that sense. Quickly out of my mind, the only thing I can see that is affected by your hours of playing and what you do with them, is the mage's faster casting time.

Once again, if you had more special items, special quests, special whatever that popped up every now and then, it would encourage people playing. A certain item that would boost your skills for a week. Huntable skill gains (we have books now, so atleast something was done in trying to do something about it). Magical weapons that are very rare (we have those ethereal weapons, but... ).

Now, what I feel people like when there are these kind of items and quests and whatever, is that the stuff they find can be used in pvp like an ace in their sleeve. Usually that kind of stuff can be overpowered in the right situation. And that's what makes the game fun for them. And maybe it would make the game fun even if you happen to get killed by it. However, it turns to flaming and hatred and all the fuckstorm we know, when those things mean destroying someone else's thousands of hours online.

Imagine an RPG where someone found the crystal of whatever whatever. They use it in a massive battle and the opposing party is fucked up and they lose the city and "oh sons of a bitches! We lost the city, shit." It sucks, but you can handle it. However, you stop handling it when you lose all your hard earned stuff.


Seriously, in multiplayer games, the losing side never loses as much as we do here if we invest our stuff. Maybe they lose a week of normal playing, or a few hours. Sometimes they lose 2 hours worth of playing, because everything else is intact. The game is too hardcore perhaps xD

[Demian]

But here there is something to achieve, which is winning vs the opposite team. If that's what we're talking about, then this is all about pvp...

If getting to the top is easy and people get bored, then why do people still play fps after years and years when it's all the same and you don't really need weeks of playing to be able to have a certain weapon and use it in combat?

I don't see pang and MMORPGs in general like that atleast. On pang it's the combination of everything, PvP, PvM, crafting and the RP aspects of it and the numerous ways you can deal with it all that makes it interesting for me. Not simply clashing against other players for the sake of PvP like it is in most fps games, but naturally even pang gets boring if you have no new content to tackle and no one to PvP against, at which point it becomes a grind until you eventually get bored.

In fps games I'd also say it's harder to reach the top which makes it more of an achievement than being succesful on pang is, thus it's not simply the joy you get out of killing others in those either, it's also the learning and mastering a skill that many others don't have, which can keep you somewhat more interested in doing the same thing over and over without any real loss or gain IG. In pang the difference in player skill exists aswell, but it's not even close to as broad and not the only defining factor.

But now this got me thinking. In terms of pvp, the model is a bit different, but it's the same as with all those games. Winning vs the opposite team. Then why aren't ppl still pvp'ing here? Why isn't it as fun as those other games? Maybe the game is just too old and there's nothing wrong with it, it's just old.. Although I still play Soldat, and there are hundreds of players who still do..

Well, Pang isn't something you can just come on to for an hour a week and expect to keep up like in fps games, even if you were fully trained, because of the need for items. Pang requires some dedication. But isn't that why we all enjoy it? It's just an old game and currently it's in an unfinished state so it's not exactly attracting even the oldies.

Getting a giant bone set for 400k is too easy in your eyes, but what if you could actually lose the set every now and then? It suddenly doesn't become so easy.

Wouldn't mind being able to lose it easier than currently, but I don't think it should be any easier to get again. Even if you'd lose an armor set every 3 hunts, it doesn't matter if you hunt a new set in said 3 hunts. Currently, it's way easier than that even, so I don't see a problem from a viewpoint that says it's currently too hard tbh. You may not get the set in 3 hunts if you gather the materials yourself. But once you do get it, it lasts pretty much forever, and if you do happen to lose it to robbers or whatever, you should already have plenty of backup materials/gold unless you get very unlucky and instantly lose it. But even that is a factor that brings excitement on pang over many other MMORPGs and especially fps games.

[Tyrion]

Is there anything the Pangaea community can do to help with development?

[Quintoz]

I don't agree with making everything easier, I was never a rich player but always had gear for pve and pvp.

The reason why I said revert to before item wipe is because I can honestly say I got no intrest in playing now or in 6-18 months when the new religion stuff is done. I was for the item wipe and the starting rush for finding veins and getting the mining done etc was alot of fun but ultimately the staff rushed the released, was told 2 weeks untill launch and it changes over night, not enough stuff was done, reds had to wait to get their characters made blue, religious characters was useless, completely botched any chance of living up the hype that was being built around it.

Reverting to an old save where people had their items still and 2 or 4 religions and opening up the political landscape between them, no more "Imp has to fight Law" and "Nature has to fight Tek" let them start out as enemies and build a friendship if they want too. With those few changes I would see atleast the Swedish players returning but other then that it's the end of the road for most of us I would suspect.

[Simmo]

The more i read Q´s post the more i realise that its the best option out there. Current scripter is busy irl and is not sure when will the time come. Just open up before the item wipe and lets play. Nothing to loose here. Save the current status somewhere into porn folder and continue once you see you have time for it.

[Gurrnutt Venomblade]

why cant we just get another helping hand to script a basic tomes in? Doesnt have to be fancy.

[James Blackburn]

We'll I scanned through a good number of the latter posts and to the original reason of this thread there's no idea for us to know which way Pangaea is moving, it has been a rudderless ship these past few months and what was done save for a few small things were bug fixes that should have never been present in the first place.

we do know where pang is moving, nowhere at this point, thats the problem

its moving into oblivion

[Glarundis]

Wouldn't mind being able to lose it easier than currently, but I don't think it should be any easier to get again. Even if you'd lose an armor set every 3 hunts, it doesn't matter if you hunt a new set in said 3 hunts. Currently, it's way easier than that even, so I don't see a problem from a viewpoint that says it's currently too hard tbh. You may not get the set in 3 hunts if you gather the materials yourself. But once you do get it, it lasts pretty much forever, and if you do happen to lose it to robbers or whatever, you should already have plenty of backup materials/gold unless you get very unlucky and instantly lose it. But even that is a factor that brings excitement on pang over many other MMORPGs and especially fps games.

The thing, it's such a grind right now, that you simply dont' want to stock up on more material just in case. You do it once and powerhunt for a few days or weeks or whatever, and once you get the set, you are so tired of hunting the specific monster you cba anymore. I agree that it does last forever (unless you lose it to robbers lol )

My suggestion was making it easier to get stuff but the stuff would also not last forever. So you can easily restock wether you die to robbers or simply due to time. But in any case, i think it's less annoying to hunt a few times and not be afraid of robbers because you're
a) gonna lose the gear to robbers
b) gonna lose the gear in 2 or 3 weeks anyway due to items getting worn

than to powerhunt and be afraid everytime you got out.

Robbers should be the people that use 30 minutes of their time to get what it took someone 3 hours to get. Not people that use 2 hours to get what it took someone else 50 hours to get. That's just gonna piss people off, obviously

[Quintoz]

Not sure what "power hunting" is since you're limited to the spawntimer, when Tekstone was actively hunting, back when Darion was HP we would head out and clear a dungeon 3 times per week with a doom run every month pretty much.

The idea is has never been to clear 1 dungeon and have a full set of gear, the riches players are the ones that keep gathering bones, hides, regs and so on despite not needing them atm because they will be usefull or sellable. Gear isen't lost when a robber takes it, it's just transfered, armor, not weapons, should drain dura faster and not be repairable in my opinion, that way it would actually leave the system.