New PVP rules #2

[Mike]

Too bad you don't remember people getting jailed/banned for abuse, back in the days.

If "abuse" is something that the rules say you can not do, it's as it should be. If "abuse" is something that you happen to think is wrong but isn't against the rules, then it should not be punished. Don't you understand how bad it is to let too much stand on judgement calls?

[Monad]

Reading this topic seems to make clear evidence that you're not ready for the responsibility.

[Johnny Walac]

Reading this topic seems to make clear evidence that you're not ready for the responsibility.

I had some questions on the first page.

[Mike]

Reading this topic seems to make clear evidence that you're not ready for the responsibility.

The idea was flawed but it can be worked on, if you check Johnny's reply on the first page.

[Quintoz]

Can't replace something flawed with something equally flawed but we can work this out and make it into something good.

[Glarundis]

well mike has a point, "assholish behavior" is something subjective, who knows what is that?and what will happen if you do this or that, who says it's "assholish"? but then again, can we ourselves have common sense for that? maybe we should have, but we don't. because we are from different cultures, and we are different people, playing a game, with different priorities in mind.
and then, comes another big thing. the judgement call. but hey, isn't that the same with courts in real life?sure, there are laws and crap and whatnot, but there are also judges and lawyers and stuff.
what one thinks is "assholish", someone else won't.

apart from this, there's something i really don't get.

first, they say robbers can't use a macro. then they say robbers have to specifically use the words "halt this is a robbery". hello?

[Monad]

It's stupid to have rules that you can be punished for without breaking them.

That exactly is the problem I see what's happening with you guys, and yes it's mainly directed to you 3 individuals. As long as every little detail isn't written in the rules you guys assume it's legal to do and do it, and that force us to add more and more details and specifications about rules to avoid loopholes. If you truthfully lack the ability to play with common sense and fair etiquette, but instead require every rule written in the website or otherwise you'll assume it's legal, then my proposition will not work because you're not team players, simple as that.

This is my only concern. What constitutes a robber?

This was never a problem before because those players who were robbing were doing it honestly and fair, stating this is a robbery and that's it. If you were a "normal" red like Ancient Powers or so, they were just helping to fight religions/few enemy guilds and left the common folks alone what comes to systematic killing and looting. Now that we have these guys who wants to be clever and decline to be robbers but same time killing and looting the normal players I do understand your concern but I don't have a good answer unfortunately. Perhaps we should just get rid of those who cant play by the etiquette or unfair once and for all.

2) All reds are attacked by all religion guards

Q: Even those that dont RP to be robbers? Why? Personally I like being able to help Tekstone for example on my red chars. I guess we can still be allied but I cannot help inside Wind.

Because we get rid of the .robber tag and then robbers could take cover from Teks guards which is not what we want. So simple answer to your question; it makes it more simple and less rules to follow.

4) Everyone can be killed and looted but with proper RP reasons (more responsibility to Law/in character politics, less to GM's determining robbers etc.)

Q: What is a proper RP reasons? Will there be guidelines for this things? I take it "Being Evil" is not enough etc.

No guidelines, no written rules, common sense and responsibility from players. Mostly the consequences are faced in-game, but if things goes too lame and we clearly notice BAD roleplaying, then we only interfere. You all have played here enough to know an answer to this pretty well if you only want to. If you start asking these borderline questions to borderline behaviour for different scenarios what can't or can be done, then you're already collisioning with the basic idea of my proposition.

[Kent Strider]

It's stupid to have rules that you can be punished for without breaking them.

That exactly is the problem I see what's happening with you guys, and yes it's mainly directed to you 3 individuals. As long as every little detail isn't written in the rules you guys assume it's legal to do and do it, and that force us to add more and more details and specifications about rules to avoid loopholes. If you truthfully lack the ability to play with common sense and fair etiquette, but instead require every rule written in the website or otherwise you'll assume it's legal, then my proposition will not work because you're not team players, simple as that.

Part of the playerbase problem people are talking about.

[Monad]

If I try to explain a bit more carefully what my vision would be with this rules change.
This would make a change in the relation between the players and staff. It would require us to be a team players who try to help each other and give guidelines and come up with solutions together, instead bend the rules for your own advantage as long as it's not mentioned otherwise. Let's make Telborea as an example how it have worked out so far:

1) Player A decides to start a guild whose RP is to collect taxes from all players of trespassing their territory
2) This creates a loophole where the guild can basicly demand property and kill/loot without being a robbers
3) Staff tells them that you are robbers because you keep demanding items and killing and looting players
4) This makes them not being able to be helped by Teks
5) This makes the guild to find a ways to war all the guilds without killing the players outside of guilds, basicly doing the same thing without being robbers
6) This causes the staff to specify rules and more and more details which create confusion

How it should work:
1) Player A decides to start a guild whose RP is to collect taxes from all players of trespassing their territory
2) This creates a loophole where the guild can basicly demand property and kill/loot without being a robbers
3) Player A contacts a staff and asks if his idea is okay because they would practically be robbers then but dont want to be counted as one. (this part is what I'd wish to see as a healthty responsibility and team player spirit from players)
4) Player A and staff sits together and agrees that as long as they only keep taking the money they are free to execute their RP without being counted as robbers or something similar. -> Confusion and rule writing/adding/all the useless arguments avoided.

Is this just naive fantasy of mine or could this kind of change be seen from everyone?

[Biggs]

It's stupid to have rules that you can be punished for without breaking them.

That exactly is the problem I see what's happening with you guys, and yes it's mainly directed to you 3 individuals. As long as every little detail isn't written in the rules you guys assume it's legal to do and do it, and that force us to add more and more details and specifications about rules to avoid loopholes. If you truthfully lack the ability to play with common sense and fair etiquette, but instead require every rule written in the website or otherwise you'll assume it's legal, then my proposition will not work because you're not team players, simple as that.

this.