Players, rules and behavior

[Masano]

...and instead of being quiet and let the other players enjoy the moment, they focus on RUINING it with lame "funny" stuff simply because they might find the whole consept of RP retarded and childish. It's like playing soccer, if you don't like it, stay at the bench and let those play who enjoy doing it. Do not go running around making own goals, ruining it for everyone else, your own team and your opponent just because you think the game is stupid, childish and retarded.

You could apply this to robbing really. Nox ruined for the game for many players and found it funny, made a 'cool' video with a list of items to show how badass they were and rub salt into the wounds of whoever they could. Was that lame or funny? I found it funny, Im sure there were many who didnt. Did the people that got robbed (of sometimes months worth of playing time) have the option to say "actually boys, i find this whole getting robbed thing pretty lame, gonna just sit this one out"-no. You might not like it when someone ruins your enjoyment of the game by saying "Alright, enough talk, time to die" but some people dont like it when they get ganked whilst hunting even if theyve had a 30 second conversation. Swings and roundabouts as the saying goes.

Whats irritating about you Darian is you have this holier than thou attitude and persona on the forums which would suggest you have never done anything to grief anyone on the shard ever when in reality thats not the case. If I learnt the art of griefing anywhere it was from players in Tek, AP and Nox.

As far as sitting something out goes when it comes to joint-RP ventures its not quite as easy as that. What if it was something that affected the direction of the religion significantly? Or portrayed the religion in a way you didnt like? Its quite hard if you actually give a shit about the game to just be like oh well then I'll just ignore it. Hypothetically...if it came about from some joint RP that, in your opinion, made Tekstone look weak or that it was going in a direction that you and a few others didnt like im 100% sure you would do something about it either IG or OOC or both to sabotage it.

To staff id say just basically ignore this topic. These arguements are between players who probably can only agree on one thing- that we're greatful for you giving up your time to run the shard and for continuing to try making it better.

[xHarlequinx]

These arguements are between players who probably can only agree on one thing- that we're greatful for you giving up your time to run the shard and for continuing to try making it better.

Amen brother!

[Kerbal]

As far as sitting something out goes when it comes to joint-RP ventures its not quite as easy as that. What if it was something that affected the direction of the religion significantly? Or portrayed the religion in a way you didnt like? Its quite hard if you actually give a shit about the game to just be like oh well then I'll just ignore it. Hypothetically...if it came about from some joint RP that, in your opinion, made Tekstone look weak or that it was going in a direction that you and a few others didnt like im 100% sure you would do something about it either IG or OOC or both to sabotage it.

This is absolutely true. Who really wants to place last in the special olympics? If the community wouldn't be so deep in their foxholes it would be easier. People would need to find enjoyment in all aspects of RP, not only when your side is winning. Easier said than done.

[Glarundis]

for years now i've said i would like things to be more dynamic, even if it would be my side that would be losing.
atleast people would log in for a reason, there would be something going on.
shit, roleplay that all imperial guards are leaving their duties and therefore imperial is now defenseless and all for all i care.
then stuff advances, imperial rallies their troops, blablabla, major problem happens with nature, they lose their specific rites for 1 month.
shit i don't know, something, it doesn't really have to be about your side winning, aslong as there are stuff going on rp-wise for you to log in
yes, we the players can create the stories, but it doesn't really affect things in the gameplay unless the gm's change those.

i remember when ppl roleplayed characters being kidnapped by other religion and stuff lol..it wasn't about the character winning. it was about creating an entertaining story..

[Monad]

for years now i've said i would like things to be more dynamic, even if it would be my side that would be losing.
atleast people would log in for a reason, there would be something going on.
shit, roleplay that all imperial guards are leaving their duties and therefore imperial is now defenseless and all for all i care.
then stuff advances, imperial rallies their troops, blablabla, major problem happens with nature, they lose their specific rites for 1 month.
shit i don't know, something, it doesn't really have to be about your side winning, aslong as there are stuff going on rp-wise for you to log in
yes, we the players can create the stories, but it doesn't really affect things in the gameplay unless the gm's change those.

i remember when ppl roleplayed characters being kidnapped by other religion and stuff lol..it wasn't about the character winning. it was about creating an entertaining story..

We have few times contributed to the dynamism of the roleplay world and it have always ended up in big amounts of comments and accusations of favorism that "GM's shouldn't involve to in-game politics".
It's a good idea on paper in my opinion aswell but as long as the changes we make are fruitful for someone and less fruitful for someone, it will bring whines, trust me. And I can sort of understand it aswell. We can do quests and events which effects everyone in same way, but what happens between the religions/guilds is up to players. I know there's not much room for dynamism for now else than differenent agreements or surrenders or stuff like that. There is still room for imagination from your (players side) aswell, so now we have to cope with what we have.

[Glarundis]

yes i get their point, but i think that, aslong as in the long run there wasn't clear help towards one side of players, it should be ok.
like, many games have this "month of something" or "month of something else" or whatever, this way we could have things happening and affecting our gameplay.
even if gm's would give a hard time to a religion, then a few weeks or months later, with good rp stories (that could be written by players) someting good would come to that side, like a quest for a super item or whatever.
i can only understand that ppl whine because it usually ends up with you, since gm's made something harder for you, being drylooted.
if ppl wouldn't get looted (or not as much, or items wouldn't be that hard to get), would they really care if their side was losing? it's another reason to have them roleplay the hard times of the population and how are they going to get out of that problematic situation.
i would mind losing all my pvp stuff because then i couldn't pvp as well. but aslong as i had gear to pvp with the other side, it should be ok.

don't know, it would add some dynamism into the shard's history and affect gameplay directly, but i'm not sure how well players would react to it, or how fair would it be.

one year of advantage to x religion may piss people off, but a week where tekstone deal extra damage to nature because they got an artifact from a quest that made dennac able to weaken gaea's powers doesn't seem that problematic. later in the game nature may do something else that may grant them even more power against tekstone!

i haven't been around much in these past weeks, summer and all, but i remember when i used to hang at brit bank and a guard would start roleplaying and stuff, it used to be vehemence lol

[Darian Darkmind]

...and instead of being quiet and let the other players enjoy the moment, they focus on RUINING it with lame "funny" stuff simply because they might find the whole consept of RP retarded and childish. It's like playing soccer, if you don't like it, stay at the bench and let those play who enjoy doing it. Do not go running around making own goals, ruining it for everyone else, your own team and your opponent just because you think the game is stupid, childish and retarded.

You could apply this to robbing really. Nox ruined for the game for many players and found it funny, made a 'cool' video with a list of items to show how badass they were and rub salt into the wounds of whoever they could. Was that lame or funny? I found it funny, Im sure there were many who didnt. Did the people that got robbed (of sometimes months worth of playing time) have the option to say "actually boys, i find this whole getting robbed thing pretty lame, gonna just sit this one out"-no. You might not like it when someone ruins your enjoyment of the game by saying "Alright, enough talk, time to die" but some people dont like it when they get ganked whilst hunting even if theyve had a 30 second conversation. Swings and roundabouts as the saying goes.

Whats irritating about you Darian is you have this holier than thou attitude and persona on the forums which would suggest you have never done anything to grief anyone on the shard ever when in reality thats not the case. If I learnt the art of griefing anywhere it was from players in Tek, AP and Nox.

True. In fact Nox was originally created to grief and screw with Repsak after he screwed us over. It was directed to him and, granted, I was a big part of it. I have killed and looted players but only a very few times I've done it due to the reason that I dislike the player behind the character and want to see him annoyed - there's only a few players I used to dislike, now I don't care for them either.

I have done my share of griefing but it has mostly been a protest against our dear beloved old Admin who more than once lied and screwed me over. I'm not a saint, that's for sure.

[Glarundis]

I'm not a saint, that's for sure.

but Crowley is

oh well, i also got robbed by nox once and i had lots of stuff from what i remember, clothes, lots of weapons, armor, consonance stuff.
i even had my name in their video haha

but i don't hold grudges, it's all in the past. it did piss me back then

[Kent Strider]

People don't seem to understand roeplay here, Law would never converse with you rather than kill you if your a murderer. This isn't modern times where the cops need to get probable cause, they KNOW your the bad guys.

Actually, you are correct.

However, using that same purely genious logic, robbers and murderers will no longer say a word when they kill and cleanloot you.

I agree with this whole heartedly, roleplay isn't just talking and emoting, its being the person you are playing. Some people might like to have a 10 minute discussion before they fight, but lots of characters would immediately attack as well, agreed.

[Tyrion]

So my question is how come you consider it to be broken now when every religion compared to Law have been getting stronger to what it was when the playerbase was much bigger?

Has always been broken and it's an illusion of growth and the proof of that is that the player-base online count never remains consistent and -always- drops off as well as takes months - years to reach the same levels (50 +, 60 +, 70 + etc.). You can attribute the drop too certain seasons and change of gamers personal responsibility IRL but I don't 100% buy that. Most of us have jobs and families and we find the time to do something enjoyable, whether it is for 30 minutes or hours regardless of the time of year or the activity (gaming, working out, spending time w/ friends etc.).

Athan that isn't what Tyrion meant... I think? If I read correctly, the problem is not that one religion is entrusted with the most power, the problem is that most of those players who have that power aren't responsible and mature enough to use it.

It is part and parcel but primarily a second point I was making which is: the system is constructed in such a manner that one religion is given the power to 'protect the lands'. From my experience there are only a handful of responsible and mature Law players capable of doing this but I would assert that it does not have to be this way. Law's purpose / goal is so narrow and they could be so much more and balanced in such a manner that they are RP wise and PVP wise balanced with the other religions.

Imperial is all about RP and even though I don't meet them very often, nor like them, still I am able to have real conversations with them without it leading to a bloodbath.

We are now. Thanks to the input and recommendations of older players (eg. Dalton) on increasing the standards of our indoctrinations and curbing an induct all policy -just- because it is slightly a secondary goal (converting all to Imperial's faith) of Imperial. It didn't work years ago and we always ended up with individuals that wanted to join the religion because it was active not because they wanted to genuinely contribute to the goals of Imperial and be apart of our community.

And I would like to point out that all you guys continue with the whining and I can guarantee that the staff doesn't have motivation for anything for more than a few months. There might be a reason why part of the staff doesn't keep active for long and one big reason is that whatever we do you guys (most of you) always seem to forget the good changes right away but start to complaining and pointing fingers on the next issues what seems to be so totally wrong. Not a very motivating environment to work in and try to improve stuff on, I dare you to think that for a moment. Repsak got tired of that, Alteran got tired of that, I'm sure many of the current staff me included are getting tired of that aswell to the point that it's just not worth spending time on anymore.

I only continue to play because of the community in Imperial and the personal / group goals I would like to achieve. The game still holds a measure of challenge and entertainment value for me. I hope that this discussion doesn't come across as a whine / complaint but as food for thought. I try to do as much as I can for Imperial w/o staff help but on little things that are RP focused such as: adding statues in Imperial towns / street lights / banners / symbols of Imperial culture, a player can only do so much and is such a little thing that would increase morale. The response I have gotten from you is: "everybody will want that then" - instead of approaching it from a positive POV, "have you tried this, what about this, have you considered this," instead you just dictatorial say, "no". If the RP is put in place or at least some restrictions is it really such a problem? I don't believe so but that is where we disagree I suppose.

IMO, you have to deal with it case by case and re-emphasize RP as a starting point to illicit change and maybe even go a step further by setting goals for that group to achieve. Yes, there will be people that decry player favoritism and whine but if those whines are based on irrelevant information and lack of details / facts, is it worth the time and energy? You've seen the discussions Imperial has had and in some instances people tend to just speak w/o doing -any- research. That is personal laziness and will not instigate change at any level. It doesn't have to be complicated but the core of most of the issues is that we've gotten away as a community from what this server is so renowned for: RP.