Random Thoughts

[Kent Strider]

I've never gotten laced weed and I can guarantee I have bought more than 500 pounds of it in my lifetime, just sayin.

[Mike]

Today while cooking I was thinking about the good lie. Can something that is objectively wrong but has a good effect be a good thing?

The reason I got into this was Swedish history. During the time of the Swedish Empire the entire nation was highly religious, the army fanatically so. The Caroleans won battles while massively outnumbered because the indoctrination made them fearless and allowed them to use tactics that defy human nature. They were told that God had decided their fate, and there was no point in cowering from enemy bullets. That would be a good thing. On the other hand there's the false premise, there was no deity watching over them. Everything supernatural that was being preached by church and king was pure fantasy. Is it right to preach fantasy to people if in their best interest?

[Ares]

Mike what do you do for a living? Just out of couriosity. I've never encountered anyone more into their national history and "heritage" (yes with quotes) than you. Any chance you're an official national historian?

[Mike]

Mike what do you do for a living? Just out of couriosity. I've never encountered anyone more into their national history and "heritage" (yes with quotes) than you. Any chance you're an official national historian?

While I'm flattered that my image has changed from "kid who will know better when he grows up" to national historian, I unfortunatly have no such title :D

[Ares]

Mike what do you do for a living? Just out of couriosity. I've never encountered anyone more into their national history and "heritage" (yes with quotes) than you. Any chance you're an official national historian?

While I'm flattered that my image has changed from "kid who will know better when he grows up" to national historian, I unfortunatly have no such title

Hehe.. I have to admit I liked that reply

[Glarundis]

haha i liked that reply too

about the good lie.
let's say, that lie is a lie right?god isn't going to protect them from the bullets. all fine in the theory so far.
but then you say, what about when there's a lie (the lie is presented) and something good comes out of it.
now, where's the good thing?
that they won the battle?that's not good nor bad, that's our perspective of things that happen.
i'm quite sure that it wasn't good for the people who died. swedish soldiers didn't die, but their enemies died in their place, so, lie or not, the outcome isn't good, it's bad.

unless you say that it was a good thing because your "side" didn't die.

that would be like me saying that it's better that a non-portuguese dies rather than a portuguese.

to solve the problem one needs to think of something that is "really" good. otherwise we'll always feel that a lie is "permitted" if it makes us/our side better. but it didn't really make any good. it was just us who got something out of it.


or else a politician can lie to make big bucks. but hey, he's doing good for himself and socrates (or was it plato) did say that those privileges should be given to the politicians

[Mike]

Let's say that one premise for the argument is that it's good that your side wins. Kinda sad that it isn't an obvious assumption.

[Glarundis]

then the whole thing is flawed.

because, if you can distort the concept of good for your own will of things, it is obvious that "a lie can be good" if it makes something "good" for you. based on that, even torturing a person can be good if it does something "good" for you, or your country, or your safety. anything that you do can be justifiable if it ends up with something "good" for you.

but, for argument's sake, let's say it would work as you would say. in that case, a lie could be good, if the outcome was good, whatever that means.


as a side note, be careful with the way things are though, you know what can happen to your heart when you take steroids to make your body be what it really is not (and therefore, a lie), and don't do it through the normal way of things, aka, working out just an example

[xHarlequinx]

I think that Glarundis makes a fair point generally speaking... you could only really say it's objectively good if, for example one side is guaranteed to massacre innocents, destroy lives, etc. which certainly does happen sometimes in war. Obviously for your example though, I could see you were making the assumption that winning the battle is good (and good for the soldiers if it increases the likelihood that they will survive.

Going back to the lying issue, another good example is placebos / alternative medicines. If you tell someone that you're a guru and using your healing energy or that there's a new experimental drug when it's actually just Pez... but it actually reduces that person's suffering, gives them hope, etc., is this wrong?

[Percy]

Kind of off the subject of lying but also still on the subject...

I find it funny how people are actually so gullible, even to themselves. You can tell a lie so often that it often becomes the truth. Sometimes lying that much that you can actually picture the event you're lying about even though it never happened. You can break even the strongest of minds with a simple lie without them or you even realising it.

Another thought I had today is about religion and heaven/hell. If anyone is religious here at all I mean no offence to anyone.
Religion is all about peace and serenity but there are those who take it to the extreme. Just like football fans (soccer fans) do. They'll fight just to get their point across that 'we're better than you' kind of thing. Which leads me to believe that if there is a heaven/hell, or whatever other religions call it, that we're actually in hell at the minute. The human race has a tendancy to surpass any force that is stopping them. If there is such a thing as a better and a worse place depending on your actions are we actually on a neutral ground at the minute? Would God, would your God(s) allow such corruption in the world, would they/he/she be like "Oh hey, you know, I support peace and all so even though there are those that oppose your views I'll step back and let you kill them all". I don't think so.

Hell is apparantly a place of eternal torture and suffering, isn't that the world we actually live in? The governments ruining the economy, the war, the natural disasters, the desieses? Maybe throughout time the human race has driven what would be Hells Minions away, maybe we're actually that f**ked up as a species even Mr. Diablo himself can't be bothered with the effort. Maybe religion has sent down their clergy men and women to try to give us that hope back that even though somewhere down the line we did wrong to end up here, there could be forgiveness?

Have you ever noticed that for centuries if not millenia there has been war, there has been fighting since history began, since before religion and anybody ever stopped to wonder why? And not the type of fighting to defend yourself from the agressive animals either. Ever notice how a pact of animals will share their home with others? When they eat, yeah maybe the alpha-male takes the biggest portion or eats first but food is always left for others. Yet we can't do the same?

All over the world are images and statues depicting awful creatures, the Egyptian imagery for example, shows men with wierd creature heads holding their whips of staves or whatever putting thousands of people to work on a tomb for their death. Gargoyles are another example, where the hell would someone even think of a creature like that without seeing one at one point.

'Fate' is another thing.. Your path is already chosen according to some people, your fate is already sealed... Why is that? Because we've been sent here for doing wrong in a previous life and there are only two paths to choose? To carry on doing wrong or to do good and go back up there to the good place?

To sum it all up, I believe that if there is a heaven/hell, we're already in hell. Humans have crusaded for many years to try and rid the forces of evil and pretty much have done. And also that humans have the capability to pretty much deal with any sitauation they're thrown in and make the best of it but this world will always have tainted people to ruin everything for us, because ladies and gentlemen... This is hell.


By the way I am in no way, shape or form a religious man. I do believe there is something greater than I out there but do not know what.


P.S.
Can someone inspect my smokes? I'm pretty sure these conversations only happen through drunk/getting high. I only smoke normal hand rolling tobbaco...