Breivik 21 year sentence

[Ares]

Ugh.. I've been out of the university for a few years, so had to look up cultural marxism. I don't know anything about the EDL though, but I don't see how being a zionist, and anti-Islam is contradictionary?

Great reply though Mike. I'm not sure I agree prison is better though.. Locked up with lunaticts, drugged out of your mind for the rest of your life sounds pretty bad as well.

[Mike]

Ugh.. I've been out of the university for a few years, so had to look up cultural marxism. I don't know anything about the EDL though, but I don't see how being a zionist, and anti-Islam is contradictionary?

Well Cultural Marxism is a Zionist concept and strategy. Without it, no mass immigration, no Islamisation of Europe. Blaming Islam as a religion for the problems he is discussing is basically what people do before they read up on the big picture stuff. Zionists wants a racially, culturally and religiously homogenous Israel and multiculturalism everywhere else. It's not so much about being for or against Islam. Muslims are "useful idiots" for these people up to a point, but they can become a problem too. The Muslims in Malmö, Sweden are violently anti-semitic for example.

Great reply though Mike. I'm not sure I agree prison is better though.. Locked up with lunaticts, drugged out of your mind for the rest of your life sounds pretty bad as well.

The reason I think jail is better is that a mental institution is that Breivik's actions and his manifest will remain to the world not as lunacy, but as an analysis of a world headed for disaster. For all his faults I think that's the better outcome.

[Glarundis]

@ mike

to me, that's still a type of insanity, even though i could "agree" that it's not what we normally call being insane.
[/@mike]

now, this whole prison thing, what pisses me off is only the fact that they have better lives there than people outside. that really is stupid.

about life in prison, death penalty, and all, i mean, come on. then of course, we start with the stupid arguments of "oh, but this time he killed people in an island in a solo attack". fuck it

If you take someone's life, especially in this inhuman nature, you should definitely be punished by life in a prison(the rape kind) or by death.

yes, he really did take someone's life in inhuman nature. but is there anything human about wanting him to be punished by life in a prison (the rape kind) or by death?

i think we, the ones who call themselves "normal" really should think about what do we really think of these situations.

do you think someone who "wishes that someone gets punished in an inhuman nature because he also did something inhuman" isn't insane aswell? just the sole fact that we desire this for that person, doesn't it mean that somewhere in our minds we would _personally_ do those things to that person? we would do _exactly_ what he did to the other people to "teach him a lesson"? aren't we as insane then? don't we deserve life in prison then?

so what about all the wars?and all the soldiers that killed other soldiers?isn't that killing?shouldn't they be in jail, just because they kill soldiers and not "civilians"?are soldiers not human beings like the others?
what about the governments that order these wars for profit and "fight on terrorism" and crap like that?what about them?should they not go to jail for life?aren't they insane too?
if the reason is "no, because wars are necessary" and stuff like that, well...that's highly debatable.

for breivik, what he did was also necessary. he deserves prison as much as governments who order wars.

the difference between some of these people and some of us, is that they acted. and for some reason, we hold back our actions and keep it inside. but the potential for being criminal, we all have it inside us.

[Mike]

@ mike

to me, that's still a type of insanity, even though i could "agree" that it's not what we normally call being insane.

Calling someone who has been declared mentally healthy by medical professionals insane because you don't agree with him doesn't make a good argument. We all have to relate to Breivik's actions and thoughts as those of a rational human being.

[Glarundis]

you probably didn't get the last part of my sentence. the problem lies in what we consider insanity. i was hoping that my big wall of text would enlighten you and understand that i "partially understand" your view on this

really, what do we consider insanity?what's mental insanity?killing 77 people is being insane?is it not?wishing so badly that this guy suffers for it, isn't that insanity too?
problem lies in, where does it go from being bad person to being "insane".
"oh he sees things that don't exist and hears voices and all". yes, but it's more than this. this is clearly insanity in our eyes, as in being nuts, but it goes further.

imo, we are not evil by nature, but we all are "a little bit" insane (not necessary the "declared mentally insane by professionals" type of insanity). and because we have problems in ourselves and in our psychological/sociological human formation, we do bad things. but we are not bad.
anyways, this is offtopic already, but i hope i cleared for you what needed to be cleared.

[Mike]

I purposely ignored the existensial rant below.

[Glarundis]

I purposely ignored the existensial rant below.

lol

but still, it could have served to make you see my point, even if you weren't going to comment.
the fact that you say it's an existencial rant, means you _atleast_ started to read it

[Vaux27]

@ mike

to me, that's still a type of insanity, even though i could "agree" that it's not what we normally call being insane.
[/@mike]

now, this whole prison thing, what pisses me off is only the fact that they have better lives there than people outside. that really is stupid.

about life in prison, death penalty, and all, i mean, come on. then of course, we start with the stupid arguments of "oh, but this time he killed people in an island in a solo attack". fuck it

If you take someone's life, especially in this inhuman nature, you should definitely be punished by life in a prison(the rape kind) or by death.

yes, he really did take someone's life in inhuman nature. but is there anything human about wanting him to be punished by life in a prison (the rape kind) or by death?

i think we, the ones who call themselves "normal" really should think about what do we really think of these situations.

do you think someone who "wishes that someone gets punished in an inhuman nature because he also did something inhuman" isn't insane aswell? just the sole fact that we desire this for that person, doesn't it mean that somewhere in our minds we would _personally_ do those things to that person? we would do _exactly_ what he did to the other people to "teach him a lesson"? aren't we as insane then? don't we deserve life in prison then?

so what about all the wars?and all the soldiers that killed other soldiers?isn't that killing?shouldn't they be in jail, just because they kill soldiers and not "civilians"?are soldiers not human beings like the others?
what about the governments that order these wars for profit and "fight on terrorism" and crap like that?what about them?should they not go to jail for life?aren't they insane too?
if the reason is "no, because wars are necessary" and stuff like that, well...that's highly debatable.

for breivik, what he did was also necessary. he deserves prison as much as governments who order wars.

the difference between some of these people and some of us, is that they acted. and for some reason, we hold back our actions and keep it inside. but the potential for being criminal, we all have it inside us.

He didn't take just one life Glar, he took many. You missed that entirely I guess, and it was obviously NOT an accident. A premeditated murder of many human lifes, an action that he knowingly took part in and carried out. If you take a single human life on purpose, you don't deserve life. Simple as that in my eyes.

I'm perfectly normal for believing so IMO, and to even argue the fact that a human being shouldn't be punished is merely opinion just like mine. This isn't about religious beliefs, so throw that out the window and "showing human qualities" after inhuman actions. This isn't so much about revenge, because the families can never feel justified. However, it's our duty as conscious, law abiding citizens to hope the government takes care of murderers. When they don't and fail miserably in this case, it brings to light how corrupt our systems all around the world can be in the end.

There is the argument that death is too easy or too good for them like Boris said, which is very true also. In most cases they probably rather die and forget their actions, but that's too simple. Some deserve to go to jail, but only to rot and think about what they've done daily for the rest of their life...in uncomfortable conditions...not luxury ones.



You're arguing a losing battle with war Glar. Wars are initiated by those who are hungry for power, ones that have insane radical beliefs. If men go to war to protect their families and freedom, that's a completely different matter. If you must kill a human being for supporting evil regimes or not acting humanly, then of course you don't deserve to be punished by death. It's righting a wrong in a sense, defending your life.



You're blindly grouping death as one moral belief, that's just not the correct way of thinking. There are too many emotions and personalities of this world, and a person's life is indeed precious. However, when you knowingly choose to take a man or woman's life in a senseless act for a "cause" or "belief", that's their choice. As it's their choice, in return they give up their rights as a human being in my eyes. There are always ways to get your point across in a argument or disagreement, but as always in life's decisions/actions, you will have to face the consequences.

[Tyrion]

America's prison system is nothing to brag about or be proud of. Largest prisoner population in the world and the bottom line is that when 'criminals' go in, they don't come out rehabilitated, which should be the point of all prison systems. I walk a fine line with the death penalty. Some people are considered evil enough to warrant declaration of a death sentence but again, the American penal code has it's grey areas; what classifies as an evil act, was there intent, premeditated, etc. I think most European countries have a more realistic and civilized version of justice.

An eye for an eye just does not work. Death sentences don't deter crimes and most criminals are transformed as a result of a lack of a societal safety net that keeps them from making bad decisions, but that really becomes a red vs blue (Republican vs Democratic) discussion across state lines and the maelstrom of moral turpitude within different cultures and ideologies that exist.

Reality is; what would have been gained by his death? A measure of justice for the families: possibly. But what stops another person that thinks like him from acting in the future? The threat of death is not a deterrent, America's lone star state of Texas is a case in point. I believe Gandhi was well ahead of his time and correct in his thinking, when he said, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

[Tyrion]

Calling someone who has been declared mentally healthy by medical professionals insane because you don't agree with him doesn't make a good argument. We all have to relate to Breivik's actions and thoughts as those of a rational human being.

I would certainly not call him insane. I read that he meditated regularly to prepare himself, mentally for the sorrow he would cause. These aren't the actions of a mass murderer deemed criminally insane. I think that his actions were insane and asinine. To kill to further one's political agenda does not work. You may get people's attention but in the end, the message gets lost in the pile of bodies and most reasonably thinking people cannot allow themselves to consider death as an alternative to discussion. We don't live in the 1940's any more and for the better, the world learned a valuable lesson from the Third Reich, that is: death as a political motivator is unacceptable.