Boris wrote:If Salvation worked like before, then sure - but nowdays it's something much greater, as it wipes your MC records completely.
It's still a no.
- Boris
And this is fine if nowadays is equal to past, but it isn't. This new salvation fix doesn't fix the past, it fixes the future.
This is awesome against future robbers and future murderers who HAVE a fresh start and who will get to KEEP all the items and gold they ever rob or loot, but you're totally and utterly screwing every older player up - at least those who want salvation - due to the fact that all they ever gained gathering those MCs was lost the moment item-wipe hit Pangaea.
Murdercounts before June 1st 2008 (Itemwipe/rollback) should not count. O'well, I've said all this before so I just leave it here, I guess I'll just have to settle with the thought of never getting an explanation and thus never understanding the logic in your opinion.
[Edit] Actually I have to get clarification to something. Palma you asking this to be a one-time-thing that all MCs older than the 1000 days/time before item-wipe are universally removed? Meaning that if we go 5 years forward, I'd have to pay all the MC's I've gathered after the item-wipe, not just during the previous 1000 days?
Not sure I understood the question, I'm asking that with this new system, players who return are allowed to choose. Whether they want to go good or bad. If I'd do murdercounts, I'd pay for them. I, like any other red, would never go red unless I got safe spots, friends, money, items, etc.
People say I have to pay for the murdercounts cause I did them. Well, let me tell you all that, all of those Law names over there, are back from when Tek vs Law had no looting rules. Other names are from people who helped Law back then, there was also no looting. And the rest is just random people who died to plague in Britain, usually noobs.
So as you see, even then I had no Millions like you all think I had. I never had a million.
I'm basically being forced by the system to be a criminal, when I don't want to.
It's so stupid, you are all fine with me remaking chars, me getting more murdercounts, etc. But then you vote that people should have to pay 4 mils. Is anyone anywhere anytime going to pay 4 mil to be blue?
The second vote clearly states that there's racism towards reds, yet you force people to remain reds. Whoever voted no can only be broken. Cause you know people don't have 4 mils, you know that I myself would have to remake my chars.
This is grieving in it's pure state.
The question is, are you asking for all MCs before the item-wipe removed or are you asking that all MCs older than 1000 days are always removed (Now, a year after and even 5 years from now)?
Imho the first one is needed, the second isn't due to the new system.
In action this means if you made a new character and started killing people now, you'd have to pay for the crimes even if you waited 2000 days. However, if you're returning to the shard with MCs from the time before the item-wipe, you don't have to pay for them.
I know this might lead to the "issue" that someone kills 30 players now, takes a four year break and returns with absolutely nothing due to houses decaying etc and thus "can't get salvation". However, the difference is the absence was his choise whereas the item-wipe wasn't. This is fair and he should pay for his crimes even if he doesn't have the money, even if all the items have decayed and even if he has been away for four years, because, once more it was his own choise to take a long break and allow his items and money to decay.
Before the item wipe you had what you sowed and after you got what you reeped. Just because you don't have what you robbed doesn't mean it didn't effect the players at the time ergo you still have to pay for that inconvenience/murder you caused.
Before the item wipe you had what you sowed and after you got what you reeped.
We got the MCs, we got wronged multiple times, died in wrong rescues a lot of times and lost all our indy gear/auropians, got imprisoned once or twice, solituded and looted multiple times as well. We already reap what we sow back then. If you didn't get the memo, it really WASN'T easy to be red here back in the days... most red players lost more than they ever gained.
Well honestly that was your choice to go red, I am for removing 1000 days past however I see the point Biggs making. Just cause it wasn't easy, you still chose to do it. I would feel way worse for the people that lost gear and had a harder time thanks to the people who were robbing/killing.
Some people always have to be red. Otherwise this shard would die to boredomg and inactivity. Yes, I amongst others chose this, but if there weren't players like me, there'd be no Tekstone, no Imperial and no need for Law. What would you have without us? And vica versa. We need each other.
People might not realize it but especially in Repsak's time when it is true we might have looted an indy set or two from "innocent blues", we also lost plenty of sets ourself. Granted, I've never lost an indy set to another player, but I've lost three full sets in Wrong rescues alone.
And when the item-wipe hit us, I lost a dozen indy sets with elite auropians, elite d'skulls and all kind of other nice things, magic weapons, special quest rewards, a hundred of bug rewards etc etc. Also, most of my good items were hunted, not looted. It was often only the PvP sets that were looted. I'm 100% sure that I lost more stuff in the item-wipe than 99% of the shard's players. Raven Darkblade might actually be the only single player who lost more stuff than I did. So yes, I worked equally hard as any other player here and I reap what I sow every day.
You might not know that being red was a struggle. For most of us, for me in the beginning as well it was muling from our alts to our red char, doing money with our merchants or other guild and then spending that money with our red chars. It took me years to get to the point where my Tekstone priest was able to take care of herself all alone, where I no longer logged in my alts and could only focus on my priest. It took us a long time to build a system where we stuck together and helped each other out. Even if I and many of my friends were lucky, MOST weren't. The most red players were struggling and quitting.
Also another thing people don't know that most robbers were born due to above reasons, due to our frustration. Exorsus Nox was made simply because being a Tekstone priest was made retarded by Repsak. Tekstone wasn't griefers, robbers or looters, at least not for a long time. Back then we were focusing on constant RP and FAIR PvP between religions. We were never thanked for it, instead we were punished day after day simply because we were red. The last nail in the coffin was when Repsak killed all of us in Wrong by adding two devouers in there during the time we were in the last room. He admitted it, but he did nothing to stop it, instead he watched as dozen of us lost our indys and auropians. After we got pissed off he banned 3-5 of us. We simply no longer cared after that. I for example spent 6 months in Wrong without logging in once. Now when you read these, do you wonder why some people turned on the grief-mode and made a robber? Do you wonder why Exorsus Nox was born soon after? You HAD to stoop low, start robbing and looting people during their hunts in order to get back what you lost due to game mechanism.
TL;DR
It wasn't all party being red, robbing and looting players. For most it was too painful and they deleted their characters/quit the game. For some it was barely worth it and required muling and help from other characters/players and only a few of us actually benefit from it. We still hunted very actively and did things every other player did as well.
It wasn't as black and white as you might think and an average red player lost equally much as an average blue player.
I know, I lost quite a bit back then aswell. I am not saying that the shard doesnt need reds and such I am just saying that I understood what Biggs was saying that the Itemwipe shouldnt be counted as anything as being robbed isnt just about what you lose but also about the pain and time consumption that comes with being robbed that shouldnt be overlooked.
And I didnt need a wall of text as I already said I agree it should be 1000 days I was just saying that you shouldnt be so harsh on biggs post....
It wasn't for you alone, it was for all players who have a black and white point of view on the matter thinking all reds are robbers and all reds are looting millions worth of gear every day never losing anything themselves.
It was for the "reap what you sow" as if we were never punished for being red, as if the item-wipe has been our only punishment ever.
