Mayor/citizenship/faction system draft v0.9.2

For general discussion concerning Pangaea

Moderator: Game Masters

User avatar
Palma
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 4:57 pm
Contact:

Re: Mayor/citizenship/faction system draft v0.8

Post by Palma »

Monad wrote:
Palma wrote:This needs raising. 10 mins ain't enough on Pangaea xD Imo, should be 30 minutes.

I think it doesn't encourage pvp, it encourages people not to do random silly attacks instead. Might even decrease it or make it even more interesting.

Very good job!
1)Within 10 minutes I think you can regear and get back to the fight if that's your plan. In 30 minutes can happen alot. What you mean with it's not enough on Pangaea?
2) Yeah good point, we could see how it works out.
3) Thanks!
I meant this: "A player will not lose points if they have died within the last 10 minutes to any opponent"
10 mins might be the time you get ressed, go try to get your gear back, and someone kills you again. Meaning you loose points again without a proper fight.

Reason I said on Pangaea, is cause this seems like an adaptation of the existing faction system. If it is, other shards you get ressed in seconds and you can run away quick. I'm assuming you're editing it from there. Just assuming!

Editing or not, it seems this will be a hard thing to implement and a lot of problems will likely rise from this. I want to wish you good luck and let us know if we can help!!
ICQ: 621133872
Simmo
Posts: 2681
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:56 pm

Re: Mayor/citizenship/faction system draft v0.8

Post by Simmo »

Didnt read following out of nowhere:

Do you receive murder counts or opposing Militias will show up orange?

What if you are in a Militia and you end up red will guards attack you?
User avatar
Johnny Walac
Posts: 4503
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Mayor/citizenship/faction system draft v0.8

Post by Johnny Walac »

Darian Darkmind wrote: Additionally, I'd combine this with the siege and town take-over system. I'd like to see mayors having the power to set the town's loyalty to Lord Blackthrone, Lord British or Neutral.
1. Mayor has the power to set loyalty to either lord or neutral giving a new and greater RP aspect to the game.
*Goes to Britain with every alt of Impstone, becomes a citizen. Votes for Johnny as Mayor. Johnny changes Britain to Lord Blackthorn Faction*

Personally I wanna keep the Siege System and Mayor System pretty seperated. The Mayor should only care for the town and it's people. Not choosing sides because that will end in trouble for our diplomatic friend.

Talerco also made a good point on Ventrilo. About the Militia. Lets say there are plenty of Militia in Minoc that is owned by Imperial. These Militia fight against all invaders (Law, Nature etc) during a siege or whatnot. If Law or Nature would capture Minoc, will the current Militia stay? A Militia should only fight for the towns interest and not the religion. But I don't see that happening. Fighting with Imperial the first day then against them the day after. Once Law capture Minoc, will the current Milita be kicked, asked to leave or asked to change loyality?


Q: Do you need a house near the Town Stone to become a citizen?
Image
Order of Nature - Telborea- The Britannian Trade Union - ICQ: 434212709
PvP Video 1
PvP Video 2
User avatar
Darian Darkmind
Posts: 2568
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:58 pm

Re: Mayor/citizenship/faction system draft v0.8

Post by Darian Darkmind »

Johnny Walac wrote: *Goes to Britain with every alt of Impstone, becomes a citizen. Votes for Johnny as Mayor. Johnny changes Britain to Lord Blackthorn Faction*

Personally I wanna keep the Siege System and Mayor System pretty seperated. The Mayor should only care for the town and it's people. Not choosing sides because that will end in trouble for our diplomatic friend.
Well, naturally Britain and Moonglow would not have this option. Other than that, yes such abuse could happen, but just like that every Law player and their alts could vote against you. Even without the possibility of choosing the allegiance, it is possible to do so. This is why I think only players who have a house/religion house/inn-room or are co-owners of one should be allowed to vote.
Talerco also made a good point on Ventrilo. About the Militia. Lets say there are plenty of Militia in Minoc that is owned by Imperial. These Militia fight against all invaders (Law, Nature etc) during a siege or whatnot. If Law or Nature would capture Minoc, will the current Militia stay? A Militia should only fight for the towns interest and not the religion. But I don't see that happening. Fighting with Imperial the first day then against them the day after. Once Law capture Minoc, will the current Milita be kicked, asked to leave or asked to change loyality?
This is another reason why it is important the siege-system and the mayor-system work hand to hand. If Law sieges Imperial town, Law should be given the option to overthrow the current mayor and force a new one picked by the Law HP. They will hopefully pick one that is loyal to their cause. The new mayor will last for a month if the town isn't re-sieged by then. This new mayor will then, with the help of Law, either win the people and the old militia over or kick them out and form a new one helping Law against Imperial and other threats. After a month the spot is open for free election so if Law does a bad job at turning people to Lord British, if the people refuse to submit to them, they can vote a new mayor who will pledge loyalty to Lord Blackthorne at that instance. Then Law will either lose the town, or stop the revolution by force and thus pick another loyal mayor to the seat. This allows a sort of tyrant RP as well and brings more depth to the sieges and RP.
Last edited by Darian Darkmind on Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Monad
Game Master
Posts: 2522
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:30 pm

Re: Mayor/citizenship/faction system draft v0.8

Post by Monad »

Simmo wrote:Didnt read following out of nowhere:

Do you receive murder counts or opposing Militias will show up orange?

What if you are in a Militia and you end up red will guards attack you?
Opposing militia's are in war with each other so no you don't receive murdercounts.
Being red and blue still works the same way as before as long as we have one realm to play in. Lord Blackthorn guards won't attack reds because you oppose Lord British who basically determines who is red and who is not. Lord British guards will attack reds as Lord British doesn't tolerate murderers. So if you end up red as Lord British citizen, you need to get salvation.
Jyrgen
Posts: 1583
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Mayor/citizenship/faction system draft v0.8

Post by Jyrgen »

I'm not sure but I'm somehow under the impression that a house in the city is needed before one can become a citizen, even though it's not clearly written in the original draft (or I just missed it). Either way, Darian, your idea would possibly propagate metagaming, due to us having 5 chars, and houses being account-based. I.e, let's say religion X alts own houses in Trinsic. Now, actually those alts wouldn't probably want the regime of Trinsic to change, but cause they all have alt in religion X (and houses are account based, so they can actually claim that "oh, our religious characters do live in there!"), it will most likely cause metagaming and the town flipping sides.
User avatar
Darian Darkmind
Posts: 2568
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:58 pm

Re: Mayor/citizenship/faction system draft v0.8

Post by Darian Darkmind »

Jyrgen wrote:I'm not sure but I'm somehow under the impression that a house in the city is needed before one can become a citizen, even though it's not clearly written in the original draft (or I just missed it). Either way, Darian, your idea would possibly propagate metagaming, due to us having 5 chars, and houses being account-based. I.e, let's say religion X alts own houses in Trinsic. Now, actually those alts wouldn't probably want the regime of Trinsic to change, but cause they all have alt in religion X (and houses are account based, so they can actually claim that "oh, our religious characters do live in there!"), it will most likely cause metagaming and the town flipping sides.
Instead of seeing only the possible bad scenarios in it, think about what needs to be changed to prevent and fix it. And like I said, what stops that from happening even with the current draft?

Also remember that in order to vote you need to register as a citizen. If the mayor of Britain saw Darian Darkmind, Xaeron Rosak and Marius Do'Brim as a citizen, he might think something fishy is going on and kick at least Darian and Xaeron out - because both are known criminals. Same thing if an Imperial town is suddenly filled with Law members. So yes, in theory it is possible, but if you have an active mayor he can watch that the monthly votes are at least some-what fair and not fixed.

I know, even with an active mayor I could still have few unknown alts affecting the vote, but that's far from 5 characters and 5 votes. Not to mention, you as a Law member will most likely also "abuse" it and cast 5 votes, one from all your characters to a certain player. So it works both ways.

If you're still afraid of the abuse, one way is to make the votes account and house based. You can only vote once per house owned in a town. So if you have five characters, all citizens of Britain, but only one house, you can only cast one vote. In order to vote five times you need five houses in Britain. Or if you have one house in Britain and two in Moonglow, you have one vote in Britain and two in Moonglow - should two of your characters be citizens of that town. I also think the votes should go by the house value so the bigger the house, more valuable your vote is. So one big house equals to multiple small houses. In fact, just like you think we would abuse it, to prevent abuse from Law's side I think account and house/housevalue bound system is a must.
User avatar
Zaradon
Posts: 4757
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:57 pm
Location: Estonia
Contact:

Re: Mayor/citizenship/faction system draft v0.8

Post by Zaradon »

Darian, wall of text. Shorter please =)


Idea

Restrict "Town citizens" to have 1 house in a town/per account/for the char.
Char > Town > Vote

Similar thing with religious housing?

[PS; I didn't read all replies/ideas so it might have been suggested already ;F ]
Jyrgen
Posts: 1583
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Mayor/citizenship/faction system draft v0.8

Post by Jyrgen »

Darian Darkmind wrote:Instead of seeing only the possible bad scenarios in it, think about what needs to be changed to prevent and fix it. And like I said, what stops that from happening even with the current draft?
The current draft doesn't allow towns to change allegience based on popular vote. And imho the two possibilities of preventing and fixing what I described are
1) 1 char per account
2) making it not possible to change allegiance with voting
Obviously, option 2 is the possible one.
Also remember that in order to vote you need to register as a citizen. If the mayor of Britain saw Darian Darkmind, Xaeron Rosak and Marius Do'Brim as a citizen, he might think something fishy is going on and kick at least Darian and Xaeron out - because both are known criminals. Same thing if an Imperial town is suddenly filled with Law members. So yes, in theory it is possible, but if you have an active mayor he can watch that the monthly votes are at least some-what fair and not fixed.
Yes, if we go citizens with our criminal/religion chars. BUT if we just go there as alts, on what basis should the mayor kick them out? Cause they have alts in Imp or alts in Law? Cool metagaming!
I know, even with an active mayor I could still have few unknown alts affecting the vote, but that's far from 5 characters and 5 votes. Not to mention, you as a Law member will most likely also "abuse" it and cast 5 votes, one from all your characters to a certain player. So it works both ways.
Yes, abuse from every side, so it's just better not to implement it at all, than just say "both sides can abuse it, so it's ok".

If you're still afraid of the abuse, one way is to make the votes account and house based. You can only vote once per house owned in a town. So if you have five characters, all citizens of Britain, but only one house, you can only cast one vote. In order to vote five times you need five houses in Britain. Or if you have one house in Britain and two in Moonglow, you have one vote in Britain and two in Moonglow - should two of your characters be citizens of that town. I also think the votes should go by the house value so the bigger the house, more valuable your vote is. So one big house equals to multiple small houses. In fact, just like you think we would abuse it, to prevent abuse from Law's side I think account and house/housevalue bound system is a must.
But it still wouldn't change anything in the big picture. Who cares if it's everyone getting 5 votes or everyone getting 1 vote? Still exactly the same outcome, wouldn't it? The problem with your idea as I see it is that it would encourage people to vote based on their OOC preferences or whatever (i.e, metaaaaa). Why the heck would some random merchant or someone buy a house in Trinsic, then vote it to go to Imp, for example? Works vice-versa also, of course. But as I said, this idea would PROBABLY (not definitely) cause lots of metagaming. Yes, it could, at least on paper, cause great RP, but you know what the players are like.


EDIT: The original draft is cool, I just oppose Darian's idea here. Also agree that perhaps merchants could get some buyable perk from it, not sure what kind though, as the arcane and combat advantage only apply for PvP.

EDIT2: I think the current unpaid taxes should be wiped before this gets implemented, as right now some people probably have millions of unpaid taxes :D
User avatar
Monad
Game Master
Posts: 2522
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:30 pm

Re: Mayor/citizenship/faction system draft v0.8

Post by Monad »

I'm very busy the next few days, I'll read the replies thoroughly and reply to them at some point, but for now I just say yes, you need to own a house or inn room in the town to become a citizen. House value might play some role in the voting but it's not fully thought out yet.

Meanwhile try to concentrate on the highlighted parts on the draft and see if you can come up with the ideas for those. Of course other questions are welcome aswell but don't try to rewrite the system too much, the basics are already decided.
Post Reply