Before launch

[Thoran]

Tbh I don't expect large changes to any class system really, because a working and online server is a better option than a offline "utopia" server in the works. But if there are some changes even considered to the piety system, perhaps some of the questions that I made are a good starting point. Perhaps some day all classes can have a some kind of "reward" from enthusiastic roleplaying. Not just piety classes.

[Talerco Pious]

Tbh I don't expect large changes to any class system really, because a working and online server is a better than offline "utopia" server in the works. But if there are some changes even considered to the piety system, perhaps some of the questions that I made are a good starting point. Perhaps some day all classes can have a some kind of "reward" from enthusiastic roleplaying. Not just piety classes.

Just give out unique RP items that have no or next to no impact on the gameplay and just screw the "player favoritism" accusations.

[Glarundis]

Tbh I don't expect large changes to any class system really, because a working and online server is a better than offline "utopia" server in the works. But if there are some changes even considered to the piety system, perhaps some of the questions that I made are a good starting point. Perhaps some day all classes can have a some kind of "reward" from enthusiastic roleplaying. Not just piety classes.

Just give out unique RP items that have no or next to no impact on the gameplay and just screw the "player favoritism" accusations.

you mean, give those unique rp items to everyone (including religious classes, and then we get rid of the piety system) or give rp items to non religious and piety to religious?

if everyone else can't get a gift that has no impact on their gameplay, why should religious classes have it?

the rp excuse was probably a good one, many many many many many years ago. rp?now?ahah it's a joke..apart from ppl that played before my time, i suppose only darian truly deserved piety..the rest is politics and schemes..and it's even worse with the system that we had in the end, where ppl reach a certain stage and it's truly politics, there's nothing else to it. ppl choose an hp, that guy gets more piety because that's how it is, and other ppl are stuck because that's how it is, yada yada yada yada. it's horse shit, all of it

like i said, if ppl want to have extra power for that extra effort, everyone should be able to have it. and if the rp excuse is that "the gods are the ones that give power", then the gods should take away power too.

what happens now is we wait to get piety, and that's a lot easier than hunting and getting richer as non piety classes do. it's a lot easier to just have your char on standby and then after a while you get better piety. then you standby again and repeat the process. then you try harder and get even better piety, and you can standby again and in case you wanna play, you have a stronger character, because of something you did 6 months ago...while other ppl are playing everyday. it's a stupid system. if it's a question of being active and relevant, then make it somehow based in online time (idle and shit can't count, there needs to be a system). otherwise, it's impossible to work properly, that's why it's been a problem since forever...gm's can see everyone doing the roleplay, or the lack of it. it's just better to get rid of it. there's no need for this "alternative system" as thoran described it

[Cyrus Tegyr]

Well I've always been interested if we are going to have a wait time to just get piety even say just a partial scale where the only thing you have to do to reach say 30 piety, it needs to be a cumulative scale and not based on real life time.

By cumulative I mean a timer that is only kept as a total of your online time so to just throw some numbers out:

10-20 piety would be an accumulation of 72 hours online time
20-30 piety would be an accumulation of 144 hours online time
30-40 would be then solely based on actions and religion participation which yes includes RP of some sort or another.

The beginning bit needs to be attainable because people need to get a feeling for where they fit into a religion, you do not want people floating around for 6 months waiting to go from 10 to 20 piety because their rp is rated low because they are a bit uneasy being thrown in with the big boys who have been in the religion for months and/or years, it's a bit intimidating.

The accumulation timer can easily be handled by a cprop and quite frankly I'd go even further and make the beginning piety milestones automatic and make the higher levels be the time when you need high priest interaction. This again is a convenience for both the player receiving the piety and the hp but more so the receiver as he doesn't have to wait around which in some cases I saw people waiting a week or two to receive their piety boost.

Now I just through out those numbers and but they reflect a week and a half work week for online time and than nigh 4 week timer. But this prevents just getting indoct and playIng your last and hopefully encourage those in the waiting wings to try to get more involved in hunts whilst they wait because ultimately they have to be online anyways so why not group and rap with the religion.

Nothing will be a perfect scale for piety, I think we are all trying to find perfection for a piety system and that just won't happen, what instead we should be looking at is a less imperfect system for raising one's piety.

I'd like to pose one question if I may to the staff, before we launch can we have a physical representation of what our piety is say using one of the unused skills or the Luck stat? I never understood why this was never undertaken as piety plays such an important part of the game for the pious classes we ought to be able to read and get that information somewhere on the UI and personally it would be very beneficial when writing macros that have to do with rites as I have done. This stat or unused skill would be changed on the fly when focus is being cast on the target so that we could get an easier idea of how strong items and foci are when we are creating them, this would be a perfect time to get that done whilst the shard is in prelate have stage.

[Toby Frost]

I think we should just role with what the crew who is reviving pang deems is best right now as they obviously have a rhyme or reason for such actions and we can discuss changes if something sucks donkey dick.

Lets not kill the staffs motivation before its even started back up again.... Save that for when Boris gets outta line!

[Argon]

Lets not kill the staffs motivation before its even started back up again.... Save that for when Boris gets outta line!

No worries about that, we are also eager to launch the shard again as you are. What we would like to see is that everyone acknowledge the changes that will be made and feel is fair for most. Afterwards, things can always be tweaked again in order to amend some of the bad moves.


Argon

[Toby Frost]

Lets not kill the staffs motivation before its even started back up again.... Save that for when Boris gets outta line!

No worries about that, we are also eager to launch the shard again as you are. What we would like to see is that everyone acknowledge the changes that will be made and feel is fair for most. Afterwards, things can always be tweaked again in order to amend some of the bad moves.


Argon

Some people are just worried it will be 6-8 months of waiting for piety before their characters will be "useful" again.. Possibly something can be done for religion mainstay characters to give them a little boost while waiting for piety? A tome that all of them can have like a druid bag or necro book? Works all the time regardless of religious status or not.

Why is everyone not losing their piety with the item wipe, law and imperial included?

[Kira]

i know i might get a shitstorm or might even an applause but i have been thinking for a short while about the piety and the no religions from start and so on...

my idea is quite simple!

For an example:
When i use a bow in real life my accuracy increases as i train - similar in Pang when training from 0-100% BUT when i havent been using the bow for 6 months for an example
my aim isnt the best and i need to retrain but i get fit for fight fast cause i still remember how to do, just like riding a bike.
you dont forget but you would still have some penalty for not using that skill.

so i throw out some numbers.
0%-95% gains cant be "forgotten" (so newcomers and not fully trained characters dont get their ass on when suddenly missing 5%)
but 95%-100% can swing across your using of the potential skill to make it compensateable to piety.
lets say a barb with 100% swordsmanship vs monk with whatever piety "60" (i got no religious characters soo...)
both are offline for 6 months both loose a bit, the monk loose some piety yes but that can be regained by worshipping their god/s
Barb gets reduced to 95%, (i know gains in that end is hard but wait for it.) it will gain back after lets say something like 50 succesfull hits perhaps to make it 0,1 gain per succesfull hit.
i am still thinking about the highended stuff but i dont think it should be any diffrent though.

this is just an idea that isnt too insane and should only affect the primary skills, also on merchants i think.
you character is still fully trained but has some lack after beeing "sleeping" or not actively using the skill he/she have
it is Pang and as allways have been a HCRP server it should stay that way with a little more realistic tweak in my mind.

[Thoran]

Somewhat interesting idea Shani, but it would be too much of a penalty for those who can't play that much anymore. Secondly, I'm not entirely sure if you thought this as a some kind of fix/balancing for the "piety" issues, but this wouldn't affect that at all. Of course there is the similarity of getting weaker because of inactivity, but piety is gained as a reward from rp-actions and these skills would be still trained back by using them.

I'd like to add that I'm not aiming to wallow in this "piety" discussion. To be honest I don't that much care how the piety itself works. But I do hope that the possible effects of roleplaying would be equaled for everyone. Either everyone should have a possibility of getting a effect from roleplaying and dedication, or nobody does. It is a fundamental game design decision, whether all players have similar and equal possibilities within the game, or are some perks reserved for a small group of players. Pangaea is quite unique in every sense and when it comes to this and other games the situation is somewhat different. There is however some similarity to mechanics like "pay-to-win" or subscriber benefits that affect the gameplay for the benefit of a small specific group.

[Quintoz]

No worries about that, we are also eager to launch the shard again as you are. What we would like to see is that everyone acknowledge the changes that will be made and feel is fair for most. Afterwards, things can always be tweaked again in order to amend some of the bad moves.


Argon

If the idea is too make it the most fair then people should be allowed to keep their piety.

it is Pang and as allways have been a HCRP server

It hasen't, you can approch every action in game with a completely OOC attitude or with a RP attitude and get the same results. There was some dude in Tekstone years ago (07 or 08) who was just a power gamer and the only thing he did in-game was *nods* and he recahed 40p. Should this change? Probably not, it allows players that don't enjoy RP too still play and have fun. Should people who choose to put alot of effort into RPing get rewards? Yup.