Piety Vs. Skill

[Jaskier Huntley]

Make it skill based so people can fuckin macro it up if they want. Give everyone a chance to be equally as powerful.

Macroing is exactly the biggest issue I have with the skill based option. There are many other ways to go about having a system with equal chances which actually keep the process in actively playing the game - not macroing.

Demian on point.

[aldath c'om]

Make it skill based so people can fuckin macro it up if they want. Give everyone a chance to be equally as powerful.

Macroing is exactly the biggest issue I have with the skill based option. There are many other ways to go about having a system with equal chances which actually keep the process in actively playing the game - not macroing.

Demian on point.

id rather macro week to get gm skill instead of idle 4months waiting for piety

[Ivan]

Who said only way to get the skill up would be macro, alternatives are very possible considering religions are heavily involved with the skill. Since it's only skill that requires religions likely.

[Emirien]

Make it skill based so people can fuckin macro it up if they want. Give everyone a chance to be equally as powerful.

Macroing is exactly the biggest issue I have with the skill based option. There are many other ways to go about having a system with equal chances which actually keep the process in actively playing the game - not macroing.

Everyone can do macroing and it does not require staff to bother with "oh this guy has been doing a fine job, lets reward his RP with a boost to piety, his deity is super pleased"

Make it something that the staff wont have to touch on again.

[Demian]

Who said only way to get the skill up would be macro, alternatives are very possible considering religions are heavily involved with the skill. Since it's only skill that requires religions likely.

Most of the skills on pang are macroable. If this one differs then it would be nice to get the details as I think they are very important in a vote like this.

[Glarundis]

Make it skill based so people can fuckin macro it up if they want. Give everyone a chance to be equally as powerful.
Wanna make it to the "old" 60p status? Heighten your priest and get a indy med cloth! 115 med = old 60p power.
Would make PVP a hellova lot more fun to see if people wanna risk indy cloth for a bit more power...

I would make it (as someone suggested) that you can reach 100 max (depending on class) and there's no clothes for this skill, and you can't choose it for heighten.

Who said only way to get the skill up would be macro, alternatives are very possible considering religions are heavily involved with the skill. Since it's only skill that requires religions likely.

Exactly.
Make the skill go up and down either through activity doing religion based stuff, or make it go down by doing nothing for large periods of time. Obviously having max skill would have a tiny advantage over someone else, but you would have to actively work for this. Kind of like the "faster casting" ability. If you hunt enough, you cast faster than mages who do not hunt enough.
Demian even mentioned many possibilities on another page, I think?

[GM Oden]

Who said only way to get the skill up would be macro, alternatives are very possible considering religions are heavily involved with the skill. Since it's only skill that requires religions likely.

Most of the skills on pang are macroable. If this one differs then it would be nice to get the details as I think they are very important in a vote like this.

Honestly I had not thought about any other way than building a skill like you would any other.

- It is something everyone knows how to do.
- I nor any other staff nor other players need to be involved in your character reaching where ever you want the character to reach.
- Aside from switching religions, once you have your skill you can keep it and if you do switch religions you would lose a fraction of your skill.
- In terms of annoyance to build it would build like magery would, that quick, so ya switching religions would be an annoyance but not debilitating like losing the piety you accumulated in your old religion.

Ultimately the goal here is to make player's lives easier and sorry, would you rather macro or wait for an artificial timer whether it is a week, two weeks, a month or 3 months to get to your magical, still relatively crappy 40 piety? I know which I would have rather had when I was a player.

Second goal, maybe the same ranking as player's lives easier, is to take staff involvement out. Staff should have no involvement in awarding players anything, it has a tendency, even if not there, to lend voice to shouts of favoritism and other opinions, whether a case can be made to them or not. Plus it is a huge time waster for staff to vote on and let's be honest here, we haven't really had an extremely active staff for a very long time. We're all getting on in years and our time as staff can be better spent than squabbling over who should get what piety.

I know macroing is not seen as the greatest thing in the world to do, it is the necessary evil when going to skill gains in a game like ultima and I know many of you despise it but I still believe even if you think it wrong, instead of devising a system where by players can gain magically in a skill by doing good deeds for their religion is not the best way to go either, religions have always been higher on the totem pole than everything else in terms of time wasted toward development and in terms of just pure strength when compared to any other system on the shard and I want to bridge that gap, I do not want to give religion classes in terms of the mundane tasks an upper hand than say necromancers get with Spirit Speak, Druid's with Animal Lore or Mages with Magery. If any of you can justify why religions should be treated any differently than all the other majority of classes in terms of having to gain in a skill albeit yes it may seem you will have to train even though you are in the "end game" of your character most of you, I am all ears.

Please let the world know why religions should be treated any differently than the majority of other classes? The stage is yours, but remember for 10+ years Pangaea has been open on and off again, piety classes have always had special treatment, just tell me why this should continue, if you really believe it should, I want to know your very good, exquisite reason for it and I suspect those who have voted in favor of going skill based would too.

[Demian]

Ultimately the goal here is to make player's lives easier and sorry, would you rather macro or wait for an artificial timer whether it is a week, two weeks, a month or 3 months to get to your magical, still relatively crappy 40 piety? I know which I would have rather had when I was a player.

I think this is a non-issue. Alternatives have been suggested even in this thread.

Please let the world know why religions should be treated any differently than the majority of other classes? The stage is yours, but remember for 10+ years Pangaea has been open on and off again, piety classes have always had special treatment, just tell me why this should continue, if you really believe it should, I want to know your very good, exquisite reason for it and I suspect those who have voted in favor of going skill based would too.

My reason is I don't like your suggestion as much as other alternatives we could explore. It's not about being treated differently to other classes. I don't care one bit whether piety is a skill or a hidden number, or whether the code is easy to change or not - I care about how enjoyable I think the system will be and I can't see your suggestion as an improvement on that area if piety is just a static number after you've macroed it for a week.

I'm not saying what we have now is perfect. It sure as hell isn't. But like I said, there are other alternatives that seem better to me. If the skill based system was combined with a proper activity system it'd start sounding a lot better already. I don't see the downsides. It gets rid of macroing, it's equal chances to everybody, and it actually creates events ig. To be honest, even Quintoz's suggestion with sieging fixed would be better since atleast people have something to work towards if they so choose (50p). I agree, it's not a great system since it involves the staff and because we could build a better system, but still I'd rather go with that one and I'm sure alternative ways to getting the piety could be thought out (I also think it should be easier to lose if you don't keep up the standard).

[Ivan]

Well I'll just throw one idea here, you gain by studying devotion and whatnot. In order to progress in the skill you need to train on emissaries, but killing and training on an enemy emissary would be way faster.

If you're in no religion, you don't have enemies.

This kind of skill would leave still open the possibility of other ways to learn about devotion. There are some other skills that you can gain by doing something else than just using the skill itself ie. animal lore can gain from gathering beeswax also.

[Quintoz]

So all the solution to a non-maroable skill is just things we all did for piety, cool. Just give people the equivilant of 40p when they join a religion, that way they have a playable character of the bat, give them a chance to earn the equivilant of 45 or 50p by being active, let hp either have 50 or 60 of the bat.

If anything there should be a task system that gives you piety based of activites that you partake in that deteriorates if you're inactive and puts you back to base piety.