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[Jyrgen]

As mentioned, it's a tryout. Nothing's written in stone.

I don't have problems with guards being kickass, but for me the main consern is making sieging too hard.

- Boris

Sieging isn't as hard as the altar raids (guard-wise) at the moment, if you consider the following:

Right now, the owner of the city gets notified only when the attackers are ALREADY at the townstone and cleared most of town's guards etc. This means that the owners of the city can't really just recall to the townstone and spam guards. They can only make some safe place they can fall back to, but due to the long casting time, they can't really use the guards to get to townstone.

Now, if we talk about attacking altars, the defending party gets notified the moment emmys get attacked, thus they have (plenty of) time to just recall to altar and spam guards. Now there's emissaries AND shitloads unsummonable guards at the altar. Which makes it hell a lot harder for the attackers, if not impossible. I wouldn't even want to know how hard attacking Imperial altar at the moment is. The only viable tactics is to kill the emissaries and everything AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, and if the oppononents show up before you've done that, you'll just have to flee.

[Boris]

In sieging dispellable guards just might be better. That's why this is just a tryout.

The problem isn't the "can't be dispelled" part... it's the 8 chants. You can't summon them in every situation. You most likely need to be far away from action and you need someone covering your ass - while you cast the rite. That's why the normal 20 minute / 3-4 chant / dispellable guards may be better. You can use them more often with less risk.

- Boris

[Jyrgen]

In sieging dispellable guards just might be better. That's why this is just a tryout.

The problem isn't the "can't be dispelled" part... it's the 8 chants. You can't summon them in every situation. You most likely need to be far away from action and you need someone covering your ass - while you cast the rite. That's why the normal 20 minute / 3-4 chant / dispellable guards may be better. You can use them more often with less risk.

- Boris

Dispellable guards would still get dispelled like really fast, if there's a magicuser to dispel them. Making these, non-dispellable ones, much better.

[Boris]

Dispellable guards would still get dispelled like really fast, if there's a magicuser to dispel them. Making these, non-dispellable ones, much better.

Yeap, but they can be used with much less risk as well. You can cast them in the middle of battle... while the 8 chant version is super-risky.

- Boris

[Glarundis]

yeah but if your team can push up for 8 chants, make sure you don't die, you can make the guards close enough to the stone that will start attacking the defenders once they move a few tiles in your direction.

[Darian Darkmind]

When I suggested this idea, I didn't really think of every possible scenario. In fact, I didn't think this would get implemented. The problem is if the enemy manages to cast them near the town-stone, they can swarm the whole place with guards and keep healing them making it impossible to siege.

Although the ritual is 8 chants long which gives it a certain risk, the problem is if Law/Imperial manages to do it once near the town-stone, the siege is over. Even though it might be risky, if the caster is protected by enough veritas spam, it should be "fairly easy". After the first wave of guards, another priest can cast guards while being protected by the old guards and priests.

I know there can only be a certain amount of guards in certain limited space, but so far the limit is too high. Therefore I'd suggest a few fixes to still make them good, but not impossible in siege:

1. You can only summon 4 guards at any given time
2. Each guard have to be 12 tiles away from each other - making them spread out, also ensures there's not too many of them in one spot.
3. Guards last for 20 minutes - but remain undispellable. This way neither side can cast the guards at the same time leading to impossible army of guards, but instead they have to take turns and time them well.
4. New guards cannot be summoned in the same area as the previous ones for one hour, even if the previous ones has been killed/disappeared. (Dunno how hard this is to script)
5. Summoned guards are weaker (Both health and damage-wise) depending of the piety.
- 60 piety summons 4 guards which are 80% of the original guard strength
- 50 piety summons 3 guards which are 70% of the original guard strength
- 40 piety summons 2 guards which are 60% of the original guard strength
- 30 piety summons 1 guards which is 50% of the original guard strength
- 10 and 20 piety cannot cast any.

Even with above changes the siege might be too hard if the defending side manages to cast 50-60 piety guards at the stone. But at least this way it's only 4 of them in that space which should, in theory be killed pretty easily. My concern is though that killing them takes longer than breaking the siege. Although this way it might be harder for the defending side to reach the stone as they can't cast plenty strong guards nearby (Because of Low piety priests) while slowly advancing toward the stone.

[Tyrion]

When I suggested this idea, I didn't really think of every possible scenario. In fact, I didn't think this would get implemented. The problem is if the enemy manages to cast them near the town-stone, they can swarm the whole place with guards and keep healing them making it impossible to siege.

You have to be around for a siege for any of this to be empirically relevant. Atm, the guards are a bonus to the defenders. There hasn't been enough time to determine whether or not this is imbalanced.

[Jyrgen]

How many chants is siege rite? Just wondering how big the difference between guards and siege is. If the difference is small, then one could just cast siege on the townstone, instead of guards.

EDIT: Haha, apparently it's possible to siege a town without the owner of the town now even knowing about it! And you talk about sieging maybe being too hard? Hope you had a nice fight at least

[Quintoz]

How many chants is siege rite? Just wondering how big the difference between guards and siege is. If the difference is small, then one could just cast siege on the townstone, instead of guards.

It's 8 chants.

[Akkarrin]

When I suggested this idea, I didn't really think of every possible scenario. In fact, I didn't think this would get implemented. The problem is if the enemy manages to cast them near the town-stone, they can swarm the whole place with guards and keep healing them making it impossible to siege.

Although the ritual is 8 chants long which gives it a certain risk, the problem is if Law/Imperial manages to do it once near the town-stone, the siege is over. Even though it might be risky, if the caster is protected by enough veritas spam, it should be "fairly easy". After the first wave of guards, another priest can cast guards while being protected by the old guards and priests.

I know there can only be a certain amount of guards in certain limited space, but so far the limit is too high. Therefore I'd suggest a few fixes to still make them good, but not impossible in siege:

1. You can only summon 4 guards at any given time
2. Each guard have to be 12 tiles away from each other - making them spread out, also ensures there's not too many of them in one spot.
3. Guards last for 20 minutes - but remain undispellable. This way neither side can cast the guards at the same time leading to impossible army of guards, but instead they have to take turns and time them well.
4. New guards cannot be summoned in the same area as the previous ones for one hour, even if the previous ones has been killed/disappeared. (Dunno how hard this is to script)
5. Summoned guards are weaker (Both health and damage-wise) depending of the piety.
- 60 piety summons 4 guards which are 80% of the original guard strength
- 50 piety summons 3 guards which are 70% of the original guard strength
- 40 piety summons 2 guards which are 60% of the original guard strength
- 30 piety summons 1 guards which is 50% of the original guard strength
- 10 and 20 piety cannot cast any.

Even with above changes the siege might be too hard if the defending side manages to cast 50-60 piety guards at the stone. But at least this way it's only 4 of them in that space which should, in theory be killed pretty easily. My concern is though that killing them takes longer than breaking the siege. Although this way it might be harder for the defending side to reach the stone as they can't cast plenty strong guards nearby (Because of Low piety priests) while slowly advancing toward the stone.

Hang on we just lost our ability to cast guards in any location we want on mainland... this is a huge nerf for law (not all law thought so in exchange for dispellable, but i do think so)! and you were one of the people who supported it most?! and your idea is to nerf them even more? so that the majority of priests can only cast two guards at 60% strength which will be nowhere near to eachother and have 40 min break between the time they can summon guards that have worn out... your arrogance is astounding.

I accept the new change seems a bit daft as i said on multiple occassions so how about, changing them back to how they were?!